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Post by Runway Runaway on Jul 11, 2011 10:34:35 GMT -5
You think that's something, you ought to hear me breakdown the different versions of Rio and Hold Back The Rain. Your mind would splinter, I guarantee you!
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ansgar
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Post by ansgar on Jul 13, 2011 6:44:37 GMT -5
The video version i had is slightly slower than the CD version, maybe form my rip or maybe for purposes of the video. When I matched the speeds, I compared this part you explain with care, and I still think they are the same versions! Gabby, I think after listening, I agree with you. I think the video version is indeed an edit of the original cd version and not the full uk original lp version,... only that the tempo is slower. Good ear! Sorry for this late reply, I was in Hamburg for 2 days... *GREAT* city by the way! ok - ok, now I've got it, don't know why it took me so long, so thank you for your patience! Can we say then that the 'Video Version' has compared to the 'US Album Remix' for the most part a louder bass and louder guitars and at same time the keyboards and drums are quieter in most places. The treble booster was used to let the 'US Album Remix' sound much higher... The 'Video Version' is mastered a bit slower than the 'US Album Remix' as well as having a 3 or 4 sec. shorter intro. Can you please confirm this!?
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ansgar
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Post by ansgar on Jul 13, 2011 6:51:42 GMT -5
It's bizarre to me that anyone (especially Ansgar, who clearly has a good ear, as shown by his extensive study of all the different versions of the RIO album and songs) can't hear the difference between the audio cut used for the video (both versions of the video) and the Kershenbaum Album Remix. The drums are the most obvious difference...absolutely the same performance, but the mix is completely different! The drums absolutely explode out of the speakers on the Kershenbaum Remix (in just the same way they do in his treatments of Rio, My Own Way, HLTW (Night Version) and HBTR, which is why his mixes are my preferred ones for all those songs - the drums drive them in a way that's just missing in the more tame original mixes)! There are many other differences in the mixes, but as I'm at work and pretty distracted right now, I can't really delve into them. Basically, everything is simply EQ'd differently. The differences aren't so much quantitative (ie not much as far as added or subtracted parts) but qualitative (changes in the way the same parts sound). Shame on me - you are right - I don't know why my ears didn't want to hear the differences. Maybe I was too focused on the fact that the arrangement/performance is the same and so I didn't realised that the instruments were mixed differently. Or maybe I had spent too much time in the last 10 years on finding different versions so that I didn't want to have another for the Rio album...
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ansgar
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Post by ansgar on Jul 13, 2011 6:55:22 GMT -5
You think that's something, you ought to hear me breakdown the different versions of Rio and Hold Back The Rain. Your mind would splinter, I guarantee you! I would love to hear what you and of course others have to say, maybe there is still something I didn't know yet.
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gabby
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Post by gabby on Jul 13, 2011 6:56:50 GMT -5
Gabby, I think after listening, I agree with you. I think the video version is indeed an edit of the original cd version and not the full uk original lp version,... only that the tempo is slower. Good ear! Sorry for this late reply, I was in Hamburg for 2 days... *GREAT* city by the way! ok - ok, now I've got it, don't know why it took me so long, so thank you for your patience! Can we say then that the 'Video Version' has compared to the 'US Album Remix' for the most part a louder bass and louder guitars and at same time the keyboards and drums are quieter in most places. The treble booster was used to let the 'US Album Remix' sound much higher... The 'Video Version' is mastered a bit slower than the 'US Album Remix' as well as having a 3 or 4 sec. shorter intro. Can you please confirm this!? Yes, I'd confirm this. I don't know if the video version was mastered at a slower speed or if it was just an incorrect transfer. The CD version seems to be an edit of the video version to me, and it runs at the normal speed I think. I'd say the video version is the original full unedited take, and the US Album Version has been remixed from this take.
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Post by duranfan09 on Jul 13, 2011 6:58:23 GMT -5
Sorry for this late reply, I was in Hamburg for 2 days... *GREAT* city by the way! ok - ok, now I've got it, don't know why it took me so long, so thank you for your patience! Can we say then that the 'Video Version' has compared to the 'US Album Remix' for the most part a louder bass and louder guitars and at same time the keyboards and drums are quieter in most places. The treble booster was used to let the 'US Album Remix' sound much higher... The 'Video Version' is mastered a bit slower than the 'US Album Remix' as well as having a 3 or 4 sec. shorter intro. Can you please confirm this!? I don't know if the video version was mastered at a slower speed or if it was just an incorrect transfer. The CD version seems to be an edit of the video version to me, and it runs at the normal speed I think. I'd say the video version is the original full unedited take, and the US Album Version has been remixed from this take. Spot on Gabby!
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gabby
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Post by gabby on Jul 13, 2011 7:20:35 GMT -5
I don't know if the video version was mastered at a slower speed or if it was just an incorrect transfer. The CD version seems to be an edit of the video version to me, and it runs at the normal speed I think. I'd say the video version is the original full unedited take, and the US Album Version has been remixed from this take. Spot on Gabby! Looks like the issue is starting to clarify itself. Complicated album is Rio!
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errbt
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Post by errbt on Jul 13, 2011 18:23:50 GMT -5
It's bizarre to me that anyone (especially Ansgar, who clearly has a good ear, as shown by his extensive study of all the different versions of the RIO album and songs) can't hear the difference between the audio cut used for the video (both versions of the video) and the Kershenbaum Album Remix. The drums are the most obvious difference...absolutely the same performance, but the mix is completely different! The drums absolutely explode out of the speakers on the Kershenbaum Remix (in just the same way they do in his treatments of Rio, My Own Way, HLTW (Night Version) and HBTR, which is why his mixes are my preferred ones for all those songs - the drums drive them in a way that's just missing in the more tame original mixes)! There are many other differences in the mixes, but as I'm at work and pretty distracted right now, I can't really delve into them. Basically, everything is simply EQ'd differently. The differences aren't so much quantitative (ie not much as far as added or subtracted parts) but qualitative (changes in the way the same parts sound). Shame on me - you are right - I don't know why my ears didn't want to hear the differences. Maybe I was too focused on the fact that the arrangement/performance is the same and so I didn't realised that the instruments were mixed differently. Or maybe I had spent too much time in the last 10 years on finding different versions so that I didn't want to have another for the Rio album... LOL, I can't blame you there! Your work on the subject is prodigious, outstanding, and most respected, but I know the feeling of wanting to say "enough already" and be done with something! Sorry for this late reply, I was in Hamburg for 2 days... *GREAT* city by the way! ok - ok, now I've got it, don't know why it took me so long, so thank you for your patience! Can we say then that the 'Video Version' has compared to the 'US Album Remix' for the most part a louder bass and louder guitars and at same time the keyboards and drums are quieter in most places. The treble booster was used to let the 'US Album Remix' sound much higher... The 'Video Version' is mastered a bit slower than the 'US Album Remix' as well as having a 3 or 4 sec. shorter intro. Can you please confirm this!? Yes, I'd confirm this. I don't know if the video version was mastered at a slower speed or if it was just an incorrect transfer. The CD version seems to be an edit of the video version to me, and it runs at the normal speed I think. I'd say the video version is the original full unedited take, and the US Album Version has been remixed from this take. I concur completely on both points. Most speed differences in songs are simply alterations of tape speed, whether intentional or accidental, or a transfer issue as you said, and not alternate (and yes I'm gonna use the damn word because it's been accepted in the industry for 50 or more years ) performances as some often erroneously believe (as the different speed versions of the Seven and the Ragged Tiger demo - song, not album - showed).
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gabby
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Post by gabby on Jul 14, 2011 5:49:36 GMT -5
Shame on me - you are right - I don't know why my ears didn't want to hear the differences. Maybe I was too focused on the fact that the arrangement/performance is the same and so I didn't realised that the instruments were mixed differently. Or maybe I had spent too much time in the last 10 years on finding different versions so that I didn't want to have another for the Rio album... LOL, I can't blame you there! Your work on the subject is prodigious, outstanding, and most respected, but I know the feeling of wanting to say "enough already" and be done with something! Yes, I'd confirm this. I don't know if the video version was mastered at a slower speed or if it was just an incorrect transfer. The CD version seems to be an edit of the video version to me, and it runs at the normal speed I think. I'd say the video version is the original full unedited take, and the US Album Version has been remixed from this take. I concur completely on both points. Most speed differences in songs are simply alterations of tape speed, whether intentional or accidental, or a transfer issue as you said, and not alternate (and yes I'm gonna use the damn word because it's been accepted in the industry for 50 or more years ) performances as some often erroneously believe (as the different speed versions of the Seven and the Ragged Tiger demo - song, not album - showed).[/quote] Yes, speed can make a hell of a difference. Another classic example is the demo for Matter of Feeling. A lot of fans believed (and some still do!) that Andy is singing, but when you correct the speed, it obviously becomes apparent that it's Simon on vocals!
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