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Post by heskethbang on Sept 25, 2014 15:57:47 GMT -5
You need a Taylor/Taylor rhythm section to make a great Duran record. Look at the grooves on Rio. Last Chance, Rio, Hold Back the Rain. Then there's The Reflex, and obviously most of Notorious. If Nick can stop bleeping and start whooshing again, plus if we add some Nile rhythm guitar, you have got one amazing record.
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Post by Xxxxxx on Sept 25, 2014 17:41:27 GMT -5
Too often artists feel the need to criticize their previous efforts when they have something new coming out.
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Post by heskethbang on Sept 25, 2014 17:52:49 GMT -5
Too often artists feel the need to criticize their previous efforts when they have something new coming out. JT certainly does, and that's a pity. AYNIN was a good piece of work. In launching that album, you may recall, he claimed that previous recent Duran albums were 'mediocre', which to be fair I agree with.
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Post by coolbarn on Sept 26, 2014 0:06:01 GMT -5
Too often artists feel the need to criticize their previous efforts when they have something new coming out. Yep, that's the way it works. Duran always find something to criticise about their previous album, and then when things settle down in a few years, with an album or two in between, they can find the positives again. Take RCM. When it came out the guys were waxing lyrical about working with the musical geniuses that are Timbaland and Timberlake, saying how they "covered Duran with chrome", and how they "brought the groove back to Duran Duran", and how impressed they were with how quickly TnT work (now most of that is bullshit and one part is true, you can work out which is what). Then after RCM tanked and the band heard how derided the album was WITH SOME FANS (yes I know there are plenty of people out there who love RCM and thinks it gets an unfair rap, but the truth is it attracted more criticism than ANY new Duran Duran release since the birth of the internet), then all of a sudden working with TnT was a "nightmare", or that you could tell Timbaland had never worked with a real band before and had a heart attack when he saw all the instruments being wheeled into the studio. Same with AYNIN. During recording and just after it came out they were going on about how great Mark Ronson is, and how he'd tell them to "play this bit like you did on Rio" or tell Simon to redo an entire vocal (which not many producers had the temerity to do) and how that helped Duran Duran discover their "own" brand of music using methods they hadn't used since the 80s. Then a couple of years later when the excitement of the album dies down and the band start recording some new music, then suddenly all those things the band were raving about lose their lustre and magically become negative. That's why I don't read too much into Duran's interviews when they talk about new music. You watch, in the coming months we'll start hearing about how great it was to work with Nile again (even though they abandoned him halfway through the Astronaut sessions) and how exciting Mr Hudson is, and what a legendary guitarist John Frusciante is and how he bought some great guitar pieces and directions on the new album. Then at the end of 2017 when they start on DD15 due out in late 2018 but actually gets released in mid 2020, they'll be saying how it was a mistake working with different producers and the album sounded incoherent as a result, and how Mr Hudson didn't really get them as a band, and how sadly John Frusciante couldn't convert the magic he produced for the Red Hot Chili Peppers for Duran Duran. But of course then they'll mention that DD15 is going to be a strong album, a "return to roots" record, and a natural step in the right direction for Duran Duran. Repeat until fade. And I'll just laugh at all their backflipping and perplexing comments, and just be happy that it's 2020 and my favourite band is still making music
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trevgreg
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Post by trevgreg on Sept 26, 2014 8:55:07 GMT -5
Great points Talos7 and Coolbarn. I think I'll add my two cents here and say that a lot of that stuff doesn't just apply to DD either. It's actually pretty common for musicians or bands to speak highly about the most recent work and point out the warts of a previous one in the process. Yet again, I'm not sure what they should be saying otherwise when it comes to trying to hype a new work either. Something like, "Yeah, um... the album we're working on, it's okay and all. Not up to the standards of previous ones, but I guess it's better than nothing."? Yeah... so the positive comments don't necessarily surprise me there as a result, especially if there is excitement over writing a new piece of music in the first place (which, as an amateur musician myself, I can attest to being true and easily happens whenever you come up with something new). In terms of critiquing prior work though, I think it's a bit more complicated than that. DD already is known for taking their time in recording things, and I imagine a lot of that has to do with making it the best possible thing to their eyes and ears. And just as the excitement of a new release could wear off over time, that doesn't mean that they'll always hear things as absolutely perfect either. Again, it's not uncommon for bands to listen back to their own works and pick out what didn't work over what did. Check it out in interviews with whatever famous band regarding their past work. A lot of them second guess decisions made at the time for an album or say how 'high' they were at time. Heck, one of the most famous quotes for that sort of thing came from John Lennon of all people, as he once told George Martin that he wanted to re-record everything the Beatles had ever done. Take a look at this quote from Martin below... "I said to him: 'I can't believe that. Think of all we've done and you want to rerecord everything?' 'Yeah, everything.' And I said: 'What about 'Strawberry Fields'?' And he looked at me and said: 'Especially 'Strawberry Fields'.' Which I was very disappointed with. If he felt that way about it, he should have recorded the bloody thing himself."So yeah... if John Lennon would say that about his own work with the Beatles, then wouldn't it be possible for any other musician to do that same thing as well? So when John is hearing a song off of AYNIN, instead of hearing "hey, great pop/rock track!" like a lot of us might, he might be hearing something like "Hmmmm... I still wish we went with my prior take on that one," or "I wish we got that one right in the end." It might not make sense to us, but the creators have a different stake in it then we do, perhaps. And in regards to the 'dance floor' comments... Nick never made any mention of trying to match 'contemporary' or 'club' music in the process, so I'm not quite sure why we're assuming it's "RCM 2" here (especially if producers like Ronson and Rodgers became involved this summer). The band hasn't been above using things like drum machines for, say, Big Thing or RCM. But 'dance floor' could just as easily mean a high BPM or a Chic-like rhythm section, you know?
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Post by josefk on Sept 26, 2014 11:08:06 GMT -5
And in regards to the 'dance floor' comments... Nick never made any mention of trying to match 'contemporary' or 'club' music in the process, so I'm not quite sure why we're assuming it's "RCM 2" here (especially if producers like Ronson and Rodgers became involved this summer). The band hasn't been above using things like drum machines for, say, Big Thing or RCM. But 'dance floor' could just as easily mean a high BPM or a Chic-like rhythm section, you know? Totally agree! It won't be RCM2.
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oakey
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Post by oakey on Sept 27, 2014 12:52:20 GMT -5
The thing is, RCM did not sound contemporary or club-like at all, it is just a poor record full of poor compositions (apart from Falling Down)... If they want to go for a club sound, then have them commision some club mixes by Almighty, 7th Heaven, Sound of Arrows or whoever for 'single' releases, nothing wrong with that.
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blaahh
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Post by blaahh on Sept 27, 2014 15:58:30 GMT -5
I think dance shouldn't be read into too much, they're 50 year olds, not 20 and neither is Nile, itll be an appropriate dance record if so. Coolbarn - really agree with your post, and made me laugh!
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Post by madoldlu on Sept 27, 2014 18:59:52 GMT -5
Those are all very good points, everyone. I know they have been criticizing their past work for a very long time, I think even back to smack talking SATRT. Although I don't remember them talking bad about the first couple of albums and maybe TWA.
The biggest problem I have with JT and the band talking bad about AYNIN is that for the first time now I really see that they don't know what makes a good record. For years, decades, the band's output has been mixed, never able to recapture the magic for the first 3 albums (plus maybe Arcadia and Notorious). There were hints of the magic in most every album--maybe a song or two that were truly quintessential "Duran Duran". They always played up the album when it was coming out, and they always had their excuses after the fact. It made me think, "okay, they are critical of themselves and see that they didn't do quite what they set out to do and what would appeal to their audience and audiences abroad." Nothing wrong with that. Every artist should have that kind of self criticism.
But finally with AYNIN, everything clicked. The album as a whole was a clear victory. It was musically solidly written and performed, and everyone pretty much loved it. It's gotten the best feedback they have gotten in decades. Having JT and the band have "reservations" about it shows me that they are not taking audience feedback into account and that they have a very skewed sense of their own music. Maybe AYNIN underperformed (because their popularity has waned) so they interpret the sales figures as a failure. But if they truly see AYNIN as an artistic failure, then I almost have to give up on them because it tells me that they think the music I like from them is no good.
Now, if they would have said, "we're all very proud of AYNIN, feeling we jumped a hurdle in our careers and finally took ownership of our own sound. But it's time for us to move forward and explore new sounds", I would be okay with that. They are acknowledging that they are happy with that sound and know they have done a good job with it, but that they feel they can now close the book on it.
I know I might be over analyzing it or being overly sensitive about it, but it saddens me because before, I thought that the guys just couldn't get that magic back no matter how hard they tried. Now I know it's because they simply choose not to do that anymore because they didn't think it was any good.
I wouldn't mind if they did something like Get Lucky. But I would HATE it if they did something like Blurred Lines.
Blaahh--that's the problem. Duran seem to see themselves as 20 year olds not as 50 year olds! Otherwise we would never have gotten something as crass (thanks, Skinburn) and inappropriate as RCM!
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Post by coolbarn on Sept 28, 2014 2:42:14 GMT -5
Great post Lu! You may be old, but you're certainly not mad!
Agree with all of that. Even if John felt a little insulted, or desperate, that the band were forced into making a "classic" sounding Duran Duran album after some fan backlash from RCM, then he still can't possibly say that AYNIN wasn't all that impressive or appreciated by the fans. The feedback from AYNIN, even to this day, is 99% positive. The band mightn't love the album as much as we did, but I would have thought they would still be stoked to hear things like "this is the best Duran Duran album in 25 years".
Maybe he's disappointed that it proved that there is a certain sound that Duran Duran fans love to hear and receive from the band? Maybe the band thinks "well, unless we make early-80s sounding music our fans aren't going to be as happy each album"? Maybe the band thinks "well we know for a fact the fans are going to be positive if we make "classic" sounding Duran Duran, let's see if we can make them just as excited with more of a "contemporary" Duran Duran? Let's prove we've still got it and can still do it!".
I don't know. John's answer at least seemed to make sense when we thought he was talking about RCM. For him to say that about AYNIN makes me think he mustn't read many Duran Duran related forums. Which is a real shame - the internet is a great marketing tool. It's a free way for you to find out the likes and dislikes of the people who buy your product, and you'd be mad not take advantage of that.
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