oakey
PAPER GOD
Posts: 2,600
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Post by oakey on Oct 16, 2019 12:16:46 GMT -5
Let's find and post some footage to prove that Nick actually can play. The Devils - Cologne Live Music Hall feb 17 2003
I wish I could find this in better quality, but Nick is playing great here (in my view).
Well...have a hard time deciding whether you're serious or joking, as the examples you provide prove otherwise. The first video is just an example like AVTAK and New Religion. Nick's "playing" (eg at 1:15 or 7:45) has absolutely no relation with the keyboard parts you are hearing! This is just him miming over a backing track in the TOTP way. At around the 7:45 mark you can even see him make mistakes with his fingers, while the organ-like keyboard you here just continues. The examples in the 2nd video are definately live in the studio, but hardly convincing, don't you think? E.g. at 7:04, 9:28, 10:28. Just some random key pressing, in these case even more so by Stephen Duffy than NR. IMO this proves my point exactly.
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Post by medazzaboy1997 on Oct 16, 2019 13:53:04 GMT -5
English is not my native language, so it is difficult for me to read long posts, but I understand there are comments about Nick's ability to play. O.K., he is not a virtuoso, but he is intelligent enough to be involved in composing songs and program them in a synthesizer. He had to hear the music in his head before. He's not like Andy Fletcher who just stands behind the synthesizer and cheeres the crowd
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Post by Kiffa on Oct 16, 2019 20:28:51 GMT -5
As Trevgreg said you can't be a music professional for over 40 years and not pick up a thing or two. But has Nick continued to improve and increase his knowledge relative to other musicians during that time? I'd suggest not. I'm in agreement, and for a prime example, you don't even have to look outside the band. Take JT, for instance. When Duran started, John was playing guitar. At the time the first album was released, John hadn't really been playing the bass for very long, yet you'd never know it from listening to him. One song in particular from that era that stands out to me is "Khanada". The way the bassline alters between two different melodies in the verses is genius, and not something that every bass player would think to do-- let alone one who'd probably never picked up a bass guitar until a couple of years earlier. And you can be sure that he continued to push his boundaries even further while working on the first Power Station album with Bernard Edwards. John really wants to be great at his craft, and as a result of putting in the work, he is. Nick is great at his craft too, it's just a different craft. I don't think he's as interested in keyboards per se as he is in the technology. He no doubt spends hours and hours laboring over his instruments too-- but it's probably more about turning dials, pushing buttons, finding those unique combinations that result in the soundscapes that have become his signature. For someone who operates on that level and isn't necessarily a "musician's musician", it actually is pretty impressive that he instantly found that chord Nile was looking for. It just... doesn't make him look very good to other musicians for it to be pointed out lol.
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Post by intravenus on Oct 16, 2019 22:36:22 GMT -5
In writing a Duran today I said, "Let's change one chord to a G-7b6" and Nick played it instantly! *proud* In Nick's defense, G-7b6 is not a very common chord... the fact he knows it is surprising!
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Post by coolbarn on Oct 16, 2019 22:54:02 GMT -5
In Nick's defense, G-7b6 is not a very common chord... the fact he knows it is surprising! One day if/when I could be arsed I might ask around some keyboard player forums and find out roughly what percentage of keyboardists could instantly play it, might add some enlightenment (until then I'm happy to run with the general belief that Nick is not a great instrumentalist but nevertheless is still a great musician )
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errbt
PAPER GOD
"untalented guitarist"
Posts: 1,726
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Post by errbt on Oct 16, 2019 23:07:53 GMT -5
I'm not a keyboard player at all. I had piano lessons for a few years as a child, but can't remember too much of it by memory nowadays. Occasionally, I could still get in front of one over the years and figure out a few things by ear. Like how to play the Mary Had a Little Lamb song they first had me learn as a kid. Or, on a more modern note, use my ear to play the lead synth lines from songs like Depeche Mode's Just Can't Get Enough or The Cars' Just What I Needed. You mean at the level at which Nick plays the piano line from We Are Family during Notorious? Listen for example to Osaka 2003 on the bootleg series... Nobody who has played the piano for 30 years would play it in that one-finger style, hesistantly adding a second finger for the 'chord' (and I do not mean to compare Nick to the Berlin Philharmonic piano player or Rick Wakeman, just regular people who took piano lessons and mastered the instrument, occasionally playing at home). To be honest, I think that basic level is also Nick's level. They grew up in the punk DIY era that extended into the synthpop movement. Nothing wrong with that. But nobody would argue that Sid Vicious is a great bass player, Madonna is a great singer, or Fletch is a great keyboardist. Even Bowie was poor at playing the guitar live. And he certainly practiced a lot during his career (playing more shows than DD). And they all had a hughe impact on the music industry. There are a few videos out there in which Nick actually plays live. For instance, on the Three to Get Ready video, they are seen rehearsing American Science, and Nick plays the lead chords....and makes a mistake. It was that tour that Nick actually played more chords than ever, but only on the songs in which Steve Ferrone does not wear headphones (as these were the prerecorded tracks, such as AVTAK). Just take a look at Working for the Skin Trade. The Odeon 1982 footage mentioned here is a great example of Nick *not* playing live, but miming New Religion, having a session player play the piano on Make me smile etc. He is a multi millionaire who can rely on producers, session players and others in the studio and live. And I believe he relied on Warren a lot musically during his tenure. You've made quite a few great points in this thread, but just in the interest of accuracy, it was actually Andy Hamilton playing the piano parts on the '82 tour, not a session player. On at least one of the well known Hammersmith soundboard recordings from the '82 UK tour, Simon clearly announces "on saxophone, piano, percussion...Andy Hamilton!". Again, it doesn't affect the points you were making at all...just a little OCD fact nitpicking by me. EDIT: I guess technically he counts as a "session player"...but on sax. I doubt if anyone would seek him out to come into the studio for his rather pedestrian piano playing, at least as shown by those Hammersmith & "Big Night Out in Scotland" recordings!
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Post by intravenus on Oct 16, 2019 23:16:48 GMT -5
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Post by madoldlu on Oct 17, 2019 8:24:25 GMT -5
I was going to ask if that chord was particularly difficult! Thanks, intravenus!
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Post by pollo194 on Oct 17, 2019 10:28:24 GMT -5
This sort of answers the question. I always remember this interview from 1994, where Mark Tinley is asked about Nick's programming abilities (not the same as playing skills, but you get the point): I approached my next question with a certain amount of trepidation. Did Mark feel that people like Nick Rhodes needed a programmer and how could he justify his job? "A lot of people say 'Why do you need a record producer?' which is what I want to do eventually, or 'Why do people need re-mixers?' And I feel that people use a programmer because they quite often can't see the wood for the trees - it's always good to have another person there. I mean, I don't 'need' an engineer, but I always work with one 'cos it's another input and from someone who's really good at what they do. You choose to work with people who are the best. My brother (Adamski) needs a programmer because he needs someone to translate what he's trying to say musically into something that can be sold to people. But if people are good enough they don't need anyone." Surely you're not saying that Nick Rhodes isn't good enough? "Nick Rhodes is a lot more than just a keyboard player, he's got a whole vision of being in a pop band and he doesn't just think about what keyboards he's playing. He's controlling so many aspects of Duran Duran that he hasn't got time to sit in front of a K2000 and learn how to use it, but he has got time to decide what it should sound like." web.archive.org/web/20151228201104/http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/1994_articles/feb94/marktinley.html
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Post by andre005 on Oct 18, 2019 20:07:47 GMT -5
He's playing...lol /?sfnsn=mo&d=n&vh=e
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