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Post by aftertherain on Apr 21, 2024 18:11:08 GMT -5
Well I’m a DD fan thru n thru so if DD say it was unworkable that’s a statement from 4 outta 5 I ain’t just a JT fan nor SLB fan nor a RT nor NR enthusiast I believe in the greater group coz IMO that’ for the music’s sake & you may believe otherwise yet I have read Andy’s book and all his many excuses, like one by one, one after the other are all there and evident in his 2nd to last chapter of his book. you’re complaining about JT fulfilling his art desire (something that DD are all about) yet it’s ok for AT to be drinking two bottles of red per night while trying to create reportage in the first instance and that’s a positive productive working environment while respectful to others environment? 🤪 & that’s how I believe it to be, by hearing all this straight from DDs mouth and ATs too I see the people forget why John left.... let me to remember you that was because of his "love" for the wine and the drugs too....so he is not a saint either. Not saying anyones a Saint and neither am I Yet I do believe in the people who have believed in DD for the most part which = stuck it out, showed enDURANce and not given up when the going gets tough and played on a large proportion of DD LPs not the minority LPs we all have stresses in our lives, we all have folks who pass away, many of us have partners or kids with illnesses too it’s not all about the one individual but if you read the 2nd to last chapter of ATs book, you will see it’s all about him and his needs and no one else’s and I don’t have to be a lawyer to understand what AT himself has written it’s black n white
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Post by telecaster on Apr 21, 2024 18:53:35 GMT -5
Just passing by...what a great atmosphere in the pub today Oh! By the way! saltyginger!!! People is talking about Reportage in a post that is not about Reportage!! Outrageous!
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Post by telecaster on Apr 22, 2024 5:03:26 GMT -5
Yeah I understand that but it was his fault 18 years ago Im hopeful it comes out soon too yet DD are all about art n always have been, so perhaps it’s a working holiday for inspiration sakes who knows 🤷♂️ if the 3 other members aren’t in the studio working on at this exact time, what’s JT to do? Work on it on his own Its likely dd have a plan Besides, I imagine ATs parts are all done on reportage, although I could be wrong aftertherain : It wasn´t ONLY his fault. If you've read Andy's autobiography, I think there are some very frustrating situations, like wasting time and money in a recording studio with no real progress, when Andy himself was offering the band his own studio in Ibiza, for free. It can be very frustrating to have another band member have a veto over your songs (remember when he explains that Nick would say to him about some of his songs, "ok, this is a great song, but it's a great song that I don't like". It can be very frustrating and even humiliating, for a band with so many years of history, try to follow the dominant musical trend and work with Timbaland and Timberlake (with the result of putting out one of their worst albums. Sorry, RCM is a mess, although it is true that it has some decent songs, but in its conception, objectives and results it is a disaster). We could go on and on. The difference with John's book, is that Andy at least acknowledges that he was going through a bad time, and that he himself was a difficult person to live with. He's no saint, that's for sure (remember the anecdote about when he stomped on his phone, and even his roadside assistant told him he had scared him?). Andy can be difficult, we can't deny that, but what triggers that situation? A combination of 5 factors, not just 1. Andy´s book is not a list of excuses at all. Is the death of his father an excuse? His depression? The band's lack of musical direction? The stress of being on the road constantly? You know it's not excuses. Andy acknowledges his mistakes on several occasions (which in John's book, I don't remember happening as much - that said, I also loved JT's book). At the end of the day, Andy was right about one thing: DD doesn't need an outside team of writers or to follow trends. Their strength is in themselves. Surely his ways were not the most appropriate, but he was right about this. Gemy Taylor : You may have already seen that I am Team Andy (and Team Simon), but I am not contrary to the others. If I were in the band, I would probably also clash with Nick's excessive control (even Simon said in a recent interview that he didn't understand why Nick has to have a f___ing opinion on everything (even lyrics), but that you get used to it over time. But I would also be uncomfortable with Andy's behavior and angry outbursts. Oh, wait a minute...I just realized that I would be Roger... But I think (and I say this without any ill will), that there is no need to insult John, or anyone, for that matter.He was in Venice on vacation, ok. We don't know what he was doing 2 days before his vacation. We don't know at what point the recording is at, or the Reportage tweaks. It's also a bit cruel to chalk it up to John having problems with addictions, like Andy. They both had a serious problem, not to be taken lightly. That is a disease. Perhaps Andy's health today would be different, if he hadn't committed those excesses? Who knows... In any case, neither Andy is the bad guy, and the rest are the good guys, nor the opposite. The only thing I really hope is that they are taking the right steps to release the album once and for all. On the other hand, you state that Andy is fine for the moment, and you imply that perhaps he has disappeared from the social media because he has agreed to do so with the others. What do you mean? What kind of agreement is this? If you know something the rest of us don't, perhaps you could share it, and perhaps I would also understand why you are so upset about the situation. You seem to know something the rest of us don't. Is there something we should know? saltyginger , should we move this conversation to the Reportage thread? Or are we doing right? Please, tell us what to do. We love being told what to do.
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Post by More Play Time on Apr 22, 2024 5:20:49 GMT -5
Just passing by...what a great atmosphere in the pub today This is DD madness central after all, the #1 top Duran lunatic assylum. Fans will argue about things in the past all day long. Im in Budapest this week, and yet I still log in for my daily fix.
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Post by telecaster on Apr 22, 2024 5:23:31 GMT -5
Just passing by...what a great atmosphere in the pub today This is DD madness central after all, the #1 top Duran lunatic assylum. Fans will argue about things in the past all day long. Im in Budapest this week, and yet I still log in for my daily fix. LOL (same here, but not in Budapest)
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Post by giannis on Apr 22, 2024 6:40:33 GMT -5
JT is allowed to do whatever he wants. He worked his ass off for 40 years.
Some diehards need to chill out a bit. Cause u know, the majority that attends DD concerts, dont give a shit about Reportage or any new material. Give them Hongry like the wolf and they are ecstatic!!!
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Post by aftertherain on Apr 22, 2024 7:27:22 GMT -5
Yeah I understand that but it was his fault 18 years ago Im hopeful it comes out soon too yet DD are all about art n always have been, so perhaps it’s a working holiday for inspiration sakes who knows 🤷♂️ if the 3 other members aren’t in the studio working on at this exact time, what’s JT to do? Work on it on his own Its likely dd have a plan Besides, I imagine ATs parts are all done on reportage, although I could be wrong aftertherain : It wasn´t ONLY his fault. If you've read Andy's autobiography, I think there are some very frustrating situations, like wasting time and money in a recording studio with no real progress, when Andy himself was offering the band his own studio in Ibiza, for free. It can be very frustrating to have another band member have a veto over your songs (remember when he explains that Nick would say to him about some of his songs, "ok, this is a great song, but it's a great song that I don't like". It can be very frustrating and even humiliating, for a band with so many years of history, try to follow the dominant musical trend and work with Timbaland and Timberlake (with the result of putting out one of their worst albums. Sorry, RCM is a mess, although it is true that it has some decent songs, but in its conception, objectives and results it is a disaster). We could go on and on. The difference with John's book, is that Andy at least acknowledges that he was going through a bad time, and that he himself was a difficult person to live with. He's no saint, that's for sure (remember the anecdote about when he stomped on his phone, and even his roadside assistant told him he had scared him?). Andy can be difficult, we can't deny that, but what triggers that situation? A combination of 5 factors, not just 1. Andy´s book is not a list of excuses at all. Is the death of his father an excuse? His depression? The band's lack of musical direction? The stress of being on the road constantly? You know it's not excuses. Andy acknowledges his mistakes on several occasions (which in John's book, I don't remember happening as much - that said, I also loved JT's book). At the end of the day, Andy was right about one thing: DD doesn't need an outside team of writers or to follow trends. Their strength is in themselves. Surely his ways were not the most appropriate, but he was right about this. not saying any of the following with any ill will either telecaster I never said Andy’s full autobiography is full of excuses, I said his 2nd to last chapter is. that chapter is called why I am no longer in DD I also said that we like he does all loose a parent or two, we all have a family member ill from time to time and in unfortunate situations it’s on going including general stresses which life throws at us but many of us still need to work and keep at it, do the struggle. I did however say having two bottles of red wine per night can’t be productive either and IMO it isn’t respectful when trying to complete an LP and working with a team yet feel free to think otherwise Sure they coulda used his studio but look at it from both sides, AT deserted the ship in 86, ya can’t expect to come back 17 years later insisting everybody moves country to your current home while having all your entitlements as if ya never had left and been thru the long hull yourself. What about those who believed in it (way more than AT did) and kept it going? the industry had changed massively since the early 80s and considering DD had made many studio LPs since 83 I imagine NR, JTs and SLBs industry experience may have been more warranted. I also get why it wasn’t equal pay initially and there’s a reason why that set up was allowed and is considered fair and why RT and AT accepted it early on, I’m sure their personal legal advice was that it was fair enough otherwise it wouldn’t be a thing and they would have never accepted the offer. DD had a two year deal with Sony, let’s face it, Sony hated reportage so what are dd to do ? Shred up the two LP contract, breach their contract and not get the full entitlements which the 5 signed on. If the label said we’re not supporting what ya just presented go work with a modern producer, who’s faults that ? Everyone’s but ATs? Sure AT can be triggered as you say, but what are the other 4 to do, walk on egg shells around him 24/7 in order not to upset him, I’m sure they had elderly parents and stresses too DD want big label support, always have, why look at AYNIN no major label wanted to get behind it, ya can’t tell me they never took it to them and so they release it independently and then what give the first 9 tracks away for free what happened next change the sound for PGs and Warner are behind it in an instant album got to number 11 on the charts I’m lead to believe that’s higher than what the Astro LP achieved, think? interesting hey Anyway DD have always been interested in the current mode of music whatever that is, they’re a contemporary band which is why they don’t like being termed as an 80s act That’s how I get DD after all these years anyway There’s always gonna be something modern about them whether you / we like it or not. That’s just DD You do realise all this started by a comment that JT shouldn’t be visiting museums but rather finishing reportage & I totally disagree TBH, That comment, I find hilarious considering DD are Art Rock and art inspires DD, why after all he’s married to a fashion designer FFS
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Post by telecaster on Apr 22, 2024 13:40:57 GMT -5
not saying any of the following with any ill will either telecaster
I know We are dicussing topics, and exchanging points of view, no prob at all I never said Andy’s full autobiography is full of excuses, I said his 2nd to last chapter is. that chapter is called why I am no longer in DD I also said that we like he does all loose a parent or two, we all have a family member ill from time to time and in unfortunate situations it’s on going including general stresses which life throws at us but many of us still need to work and keep at it, do the struggle.
I did however say having two bottles of red wine per night can’t be productive either and IMO it isn’t respectful when trying to complete an LP and working with a team yet feel free to think otherwise
Agree. Not only can be disrespectful, it is a disease. Addictions are a disease, that´s why I pointed (not addressed to you) that talking about JT and AT addictions so lightly is a sensitive issue. That's why I separated my answer in two, one about your subjects , and the other for Gemy. Sure they coulda used his studio but look at it from both sides, AT deserted the ship in 86, ya can’t expect to come back 17 years later insisting everybody moves country to your current home while having all your entitlements as if ya never had left and been thru the long hull yourself. What about those who believed in it (way more than AT did) and kept it going? the industry had changed massively since the early 80s and considering DD had made many studio LPs since 83 I imagine NR, JTs and SLBs industry experience may have been more warranted. I also get why it wasn’t equal pay initially and there’s a reason why that set up was allowed and is considered fair and why RT and AT accepted it early on, I’m sure their personal legal advice was that it was fair enough otherwise it wouldn’t be a thing and they would have never accepted the offer. Well, Andy wasn´t asking the band to move country forever. You can schedule a couple of weeks in a studio, as they have done on other occasions when they have recorded in NY, Paris, etc. Ibiza is 2h 30min away from London by plane. Certainly closer than Los Angeles or NY, for example. I understand your point of view. But also, if it hadn't been for the return of RT, AT and JT, the band would have ended, so they were contributing something really important to the survival of the group. Don´t know... difficult subject here. I understand your point, but is not so easy. In any case, I think it was a case of take it or leave, and also, the agreement was going to change, and go back to equal pay for the 5 at some point in the future. It looks to me like a little "punishment" for leaving the boat. And don´t forget that John was also under this agreement, but to a lesser degree. DD had a two year deal with Sony, let’s face it, Sony hated reportage so what are dd to do ? Shred up the two LP contract, breach their contract and not get the full entitlements which the 5 signed on. If the label said we’re not supporting what ya just presented go work with a modern producer, who’s faults that ? Everyone’s but ATs?
Again, not black or white. They could have continued to work on the album until they achieved a balance between their artistic discourse and the label's demands, without compromising their integrity working with Timbaland. But once again.. what do we know? Sure AT can be triggered as you say, but what are the other 4 to do, walk on egg shells around him 24/7 in order not to upset him, I’m sure they had elderly parents and stresses tooTrue. That´s why addictions are a desease. It goes beyond rational understanding. DD want big label support, always have, why look at AYNIN no major label wanted to get behind it, ya can’t tell me they never took it to them and so they release it independently and then what give the first 9 tracks away for free
what happened next change the sound for PGs and Warner are behind it in an instant album got to number 11 on the charts I’m lead to believe that’s higher than what the Astro LP achieved, think? interesting hey You´re right from the practical point of view. But, sincerely...is Paper Gods one of their best albums? Not sure. Is AYNIN on of their best albums? I´d say yes. We´re talking about art here, not about numbers (I know, you need numbers in order to support to keep doing art, I know. Difficult balance). Anyway DD have always been interested in the current mode of music whatever that is, they’re a contemporary band which is why they don’t like being termed as an 80s act That’s how I get DD after all these years anyway There’s always gonna be something modern about them whether you / we like it or not.That’s just DD Yes. And that's the risk too, sometimes you can hit the bull's eye of something sublime, and other times... not so much. But that's why I love this band, because they always take that risk no matter what. Just for trying it, for me it's valid, even if I don't like the result (except that the Timbaland thing is indefensible.) You do realise all this started by a comment that JT shouldn’t be visiting museums but rather finishing reportage & I totally disagreeI totally disagree with that comment, too. Totally toxic. TBH, That comment, I find hilarious considering DD are Art Rock and art inspires DD, why after all he’s married to a fashion designer FFSTotally agree. JT is a 63 year old adult. He can go on vacation wherever he wants. The other comment (not yours) struck me as out of line and full of anger, which I don't understand, and it saddens me. This is just a forum to "hang out", exchange information and share an interest for a band. DD doesn't owe us anything. They have already given us a lot. If tomorrow they decided to split up, I could only tell them: thank you for everything. If tomorrow they decide that they are going to erase even the masters of Reportage and bury the project forever, I could only say, once again: thank you for everything. Cheers!
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Post by aftertherain on Apr 22, 2024 15:52:11 GMT -5
not saying any of the following with any ill will either telecaster
I know We are dicussing topics, and exchanging points of view, no prob at all I never said Andy’s full autobiography is full of excuses, I said his 2nd to last chapter is. that chapter is called why I am no longer in DD I also said that we like he does all loose a parent or two, we all have a family member ill from time to time and in unfortunate situations it’s on going including general stresses which life throws at us but many of us still need to work and keep at it, do the struggle.
I did however say having two bottles of red wine per night can’t be productive either and IMO it isn’t respectful when trying to complete an LP and working with a team yet feel free to think otherwise
Agree. Not only can be disrespectful, it is a disease. Addictions are a disease, that´s why I pointed (not addressed to you) that talking about JT and AT addictions so lightly is a sensitive issue. That's why I separated my answer in two, one about your subjects , and the other for Gemy. Sure they coulda used his studio but look at it from both sides, AT deserted the ship in 86, ya can’t expect to come back 17 years later insisting everybody moves country to your current home while having all your entitlements as if ya never had left and been thru the long hull yourself. What about those who believed in it (way more than AT did) and kept it going? the industry had changed massively since the early 80s and considering DD had made many studio LPs since 83 I imagine NR, JTs and SLBs industry experience may have been more warranted. I also get why it wasn’t equal pay initially and there’s a reason why that set up was allowed and is considered fair and why RT and AT accepted it early on, I’m sure their personal legal advice was that it was fair enough otherwise it wouldn’t be a thing and they would have never accepted the offer. Well, Andy wasn´t asking the band to move country forever. You can schedule a couple of weeks in a studio, as they have done on other occasions when they have recorded in NY, Paris, etc. Ibiza is 2h 30min away from London by plane. Certainly closer than Los Angeles or NY, for example. I understand your point of view. But also, if it hadn't been for the return of RT, AT and JT, the band would have ended, so they were contributing something really important to the survival of the group. Don´t know... difficult subject here. I understand your point, but is not so easy. In any case, I think it was a case of take it or leave, and also, the agreement was going to change, and go back to equal pay for the 5 at some point in the future. It looks to me like a little "punishment" for leaving the boat. And don´t forget that John was also under this agreement, but to a lesser degree. DD had a two year deal with Sony, let’s face it, Sony hated reportage so what are dd to do ? Shred up the two LP contract, breach their contract and not get the full entitlements which the 5 signed on. If the label said we’re not supporting what ya just presented go work with a modern producer, who’s faults that ? Everyone’s but ATs?
Again, not black or white. They could have continued to work on the album until they achieved a balance between their artistic discourse and the label's demands, without compromising their integrity working with Timbaland. But once again.. what do we know? Sure AT can be triggered as you say, but what are the other 4 to do, walk on egg shells around him 24/7 in order not to upset him, I’m sure they had elderly parents and stresses tooTrue. That´s why addictions are a desease. It goes beyond rational understanding. DD want big label support, always have, why look at AYNIN no major label wanted to get behind it, ya can’t tell me they never took it to them and so they release it independently and then what give the first 9 tracks away for free
what happened next change the sound for PGs and Warner are behind it in an instant album got to number 11 on the charts I’m lead to believe that’s higher than what the Astro LP achieved, think? interesting hey You´re right from the practical point of view. But, sincerely...is Paper Gods one of their best albums? Not sure. Is AYNIN on of their best albums? I´d say yes. We´re talking about art here, not about numbers (I know, you need numbers in order to support to keep doing art, I know. Difficult balance). Anyway DD have always been interested in the current mode of music whatever that is, they’re a contemporary band which is why they don’t like being termed as an 80s act That’s how I get DD after all these years anyway There’s always gonna be something modern about them whether you / we like it or not.That’s just DD Yes. And that's the risk too, sometimes you can hit the bull's eye of something sublime, and other times... not so much. But that's why I love this band, because they always take that risk no matter what. Just for trying it, for me it's valid, even if I don't like the result (except that the Timbaland thing is indefensible.) You do realise all this started by a comment that JT shouldn’t be visiting museums but rather finishing reportage & I totally disagreeI totally disagree with that comment, too. Totally toxic. TBH, That comment, I find hilarious considering DD are Art Rock and art inspires DD, why after all he’s married to a fashion designer FFSTotally agree. JT is a 63 year old adult. He can go on vacation wherever he wants. The other comment (not yours) struck me as out of line and full of anger, which I don't understand, and it saddens me. This is just a forum to "hang out", exchange information and share an interest for a band. DD doesn't owe us anything. They have already given us a lot. If tomorrow they decided to split up, I could only tell them: thank you for everything. If tomorrow they decide that they are going to erase even the masters of Reportage and bury the project forever, I could only say, once again: thank you for everything. Cheers! Great discussion points telecaster 👍
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Post by telecaster on Apr 23, 2024 17:00:12 GMT -5
Great discussion points telecaster 👍 Cheers mate 👍 Always interesting exchanging info & points of view with you and some others. I think I´ll go back to the lurker mode, at least for a while. I can't stand all this absurd negativity. You´re totally right. All this mess just for saying that JT can go on vacation whenever he wants? I have not been affected by such replies (yet), but I find it disgusting.
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