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Post by aftertherain on Apr 19, 2019 15:52:55 GMT -5
My take on the whole thing was that either Simon or Nick or both started to realize that the band was becoming more Warren's band than anything and started to freak out. In order to get rid of WC and all the baggage he brought with him, I think the whole reunion ting was concocted. Whether Andy stayed or left was probably going to be no big deal since AT was a wildcard. I'm sure that if they hadn't gone in the direction of RCM, Andy probably would have stuck around. Totally agree with your post except I'm not sure about the last sentence, it could be true or may not and I'll explain why I feel this way. I'm basing it all on past history. AT hated 7&TRT, to cut a long story short he felt it never had enough rocky guitar on it. We know it sold a shite load, when taking into account the success of it as an LP, it's singles released, especially TReflex. DD are now on top of thier game & know AT is not happy DD change thier sound for AT and get way more edgier n rockier than they ever have before with the Wild Boys which sells more bucket loads. All this still not good enough for AT and so he gets a further personal fix from rocking it out with the Power Station (which is still not enough really). Comes back to DD and the edgy while rocky AVTAK is released which does what The Reflex did on the charts. ARENA gets released and that sells even more than 7, but all this is still not good enough for Andy. Some people are incapable of being happy I guess. DD are on top of the world, the critics are favourable n comming round & DD are well on thier way to becoming the new Rolling Stones YET despite all the DD success it's at this point that AT selfishly wants SLBs job, like centre stage with guitar in hand. I'm a guitar hero people. All that DD hard work n success wasn't enough in ATs mind & he feels it's time to sue DD on top of everything else as he signed a major solo record deal. (Can't tell how pleased I was when his solo success literally died in the bum for him) So with all that being said in Andy's mind it's all about Andy and considering Astronaut never was a massive hit selling like millions I think AT has no desire to do the hard work and that includes experiment. Being the business man he is, I recon AT would happily tour with DD (reunion tours etc) and NEVER step in the studio with them ever again. But thankfully that isn't what DD are about !!!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2019 15:59:45 GMT -5
The reason is already that Simon did not like it or not (see MTV "most wanted" 1995) or Simon already asked another guitarist, even if this same guitarist saved the band !!!! I think Simon did not like him and he continued with him until the Reunion, as a great leader, Simon is the boss!!!!Sure more to say....
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Post by aftertherain on Apr 19, 2019 16:13:41 GMT -5
Yes but 1981-85 is what the legend is built on... They are both great guitarists and we all prefer one or the other, nuff said. I agree with you that that that is what the legend is built on and thankfully the legendary input NEVER stopped in 85 when AT attempted to sue DD wanting them to change the bands name from DD to something else coz he had decided to leave them. If I only had the first three DD LPs to listen to and only those three, personally I WOULDNT BE ON THIS BOARD, I'm not into DD coz I only love the first three LPs or coz of the LPs released from 81-83 or coz they were the world's biggest band in 85, it's way WAY deeper than that ! yet due due to persistence and on going contribution there's way more than only 4 DD studio LPs which AT is actually on ! I am so greatful that AT never totally stuffed the whole thing up for DD coz if you lived it back then, DD like a wounded animal fought and thankfully bounced back and are still here today. Again, it's a fact that (to this day) no one can deny, WC has contributed to more DD LPs ! Heres another fact, if Dom plays on the next DD LP (which is likely) he will have played on as many as AT has. Commercial success or not doesn't quite cut it with me because as Ive said before if DD were not massive in the early 80s I still would be loving them. I can't help being drawn to what it is I'm drawn to regardless of wheather the masses are with me or not. I loved Planet Earth in Febuary of 81 when I first heard it & AND had to own it. Thing is my friends never liked it, I simply followed my heart !
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oakey
PAPER GOD
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Post by oakey on Apr 19, 2019 16:23:23 GMT -5
The reasons SlB and JT may not want to work with WC are totally different from the unworkable gulf with AT.
WC was basically in control of DD from 1992-2000, with JT not caring and eventually leaving and SlB being told what to do. That is complicated history to start all over from, having WC in the band as a hired gun again. Not sure that will ever work.
AT, helped form the original band and has been credited as the main songwriter repeatedly. AT is opiniated and may be difficult, but don’t think he ever acted like ‘the boss’ like WC did.
NR hates AT and still likes WC, as they have been a good duo, with WC being the skilled musician and Nick having some kind of vision (and being not musically skilled at all probably happy with being told which chords to play).
Still, I think 3 of the 4 could work with Andy, outvoting Nick, but for SlB and JT Warren will be a big nono. He was not even mentioned once in the BBC There is something you should know documentary about their career.
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Post by aftertherain on Apr 19, 2019 17:57:19 GMT -5
The reasons SlB and JT may not want to work with WC are totally different from the unworkable gulf with AT. WC was basically in control of DD from 1992-2000, with JT not caring and eventually leaving and SlB being told what to do. That is complicated history to start all over from, having WC in the band as a hired gun again. Not sure that will ever work. AT, helped form the original band and has been credited as the main songwriter repeatedly. AT is opiniated and may be difficult, but don’t think he ever acted like ‘the boss’ like WC did. NR hates AT and still likes WC, as they have been a good duo, with WC being the skilled musician and Nick having some kind of vision (and being not musically skilled at all probably happy with being told which chords to play). Still, I think 3 of the 4 could work with Andy, outvoting Nick, but for SlB and JT Warren will be a big nono. He was not even mentioned once in the BBC There is something you should know documentary about their career. We're going to have to agree to disagree Oakey Umm AT a main song writer ? He may have been however as a DD member, WC has written more and contributed on more LPs with DD than AT ever did ! If you wish to tell me that this isn't a fact I can't say it over and over again, anymore, it is a fact as it is. Remeber I don't measure DD's succes in $ selling terms. If I did I would have left in 85/86 with the masses when AT himself left. I follow my heart, it very much rules me. in my previous post I mention DD changed thier sound for Andy (more rockier) wasn't Andy bossy ? It's still wasn't enough for him, selfishly he had to habe it his way. Can you not hear the radical difference between the textural 7 LP & Wild Boys sound? I have an interview suggesting JT wanted to leave the band after Big Thing, in 88 once BT had flopped. Creating a 5 piece band in 89 was very much JTs idea of rejuvenating himself back in the band. Check out how JT looked during that BT tour, he wasn't quite in the "reality" moment was he? At the time the friendship with Sterling grew tight with JT and he pushed for SC to be a member "we've got to be a five piece ever got to be a 5 piece" as spoken BT JT himself. Even tho he admits these days it was a big mistake. Not sure how many are aware but nick is a founding DD member who has NEVER left DD. Thereby he's earnt his opinion however right or wrong us individuals think it is. Besides It was Nicks chords who I heard first before any other DD member play anything, way back in Feb of 81. As soon as I heard PE it instantly told me that, it's nicks visionary synth sound which I heard first and what made me want to hear more. Lucky for me (and many others I'm sure) I loved everything else I heard too, the whole DD package if you like. Not not sure about 3 of the 4 working with Andy as you put it, that's speculation and I'd rather accept an offical DD statement. Again the statement from the band suggests "We have come to an unworkable gulf with AT" or something to that effect and not the statement being, "Nick has come to an unworkable gulf with Andy" etc etc Ive seen the BBC doco of thier career and took note of the apparent lack of factual DD info. For the most part is was ok and I must say the operative word being it's the BCCs and not quite as official as "3 to get ready" or "Extraordinary World" for that matter. ohh and when I mean 3 to get ready, I'm talking the full thing and not the 30 minute edit which was released on video at the time. TBH I'd rather hear Simons sentiments towards WC these days from the "Songbook" doco about DD's music writing process with DD actually in it. Because that's literally what does it for me, the contribution to music itself and hearing it directly from the horses mouth (SLBs) so to speak. Check what SLB says about WC on that and when you do absorb the sentiment on SLBs face that goes with it. That's all the insight I need to process together with how I saw it and lived thru it. Im not saying that Simon wasnt jealous of N & Ws working relationship towards the end, he obviously was, but here's the thing, hindsight is an interesting thing. who knows if DD would have somehow done things differently had they known what AT was to do to them for a second time. The truth of the matter is that, None of us actually do !
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Post by famefamefame on Apr 19, 2019 18:24:30 GMT -5
Warren was just an employee (he contributed a lot to the band in spite of this, but even so, he has nothing to reproach), he still has a good relationship with Nick Rhodes, after his dismissal he did not do any kind of problem he met with his original band "Missing Persons" twice, he collaborated in parallel projects with members of the same "Terry Bozzio & Patrick O'Hearn", he released an album with a new project "Chicanery", in 2015 he released the album "n'liten up" recorded in 2004, contains songs written with Nick Rhodes, among other projects and collaborations, continued making music, can survive without Duran Duran, it would be great to be hired again, although Dominic Brown contributed a lot for the band in the shadows, most of the Paper Gods lyrics were written by him, including some of the extra tracks, unfortunately I do not think Warren will come back. Leaving the subject, Duran Duran lost Andy Taylor for discard "Reportage", the worst mistake of Duran Duran was working with Timbaland, Red Carpet Massacre has some good songs like "She's Too Much", "Last Man Standing", "Box Full O ' Honey "written by Duran Duran, Timberlake & Timbaland did not contribute anything, it's a pity, anyway.
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Post by aftertherain on Apr 19, 2019 20:24:37 GMT -5
Warren was just an employee (he contributed a lot to the band in spite of this, but even so, he has nothing to reproach), he still has a good relationship with Nick Rhodes, after his dismissal he did not do any kind of problem he met with his original band "Missing Persons" twice, he collaborated in parallel projects with members of the same "Terry Bozzio & Patrick O'Hearn", he released an album with a new project "Chicanery", in 2015 he released the album "n'liten up" recorded in 2004, contains songs written with Nick Rhodes, among other projects and collaborations, continued making music, can survive without Duran Duran, it would be great to be hired again, although Dominic Brown contributed a lot for the band in the shadows, most of the Paper Gods lyrics were written by him, including some of the extra tracks, unfortunately I do not think Warren will come back. Leaving the subject, Duran Duran lost Andy Taylor for discard "Reportage", the worst mistake of Duran Duran was working with Timbaland, Red Carpet Massacre has some good songs like "She's Too Much", "Last Man Standing", "Box Full O ' Honey "written by Duran Duran, Timberlake & Timbaland did not contribute anything, it's a pity, anyway. There are a few elements I agree with here however I do wish to share what I know in regards to the bits I disagree with. Firstly Dom IS an employee whereas Warren C was an actual official DD member, he's on DD LP covers as are his parents on thier wedding day on one LP cover. Personally I don't think they'll ever make DB an offical member. What we can say is that if Dom plays on the next DD LP, he will have then played on as many DD studio LPs as Andy did ! That's only 4 in total isn't it. And im not sure about "working with timberland was the worst mistake", under the circumstances, yes I agree the album never sold much however this is the situation & where DD's hands are/get tied. Hear me out. DD took reportage to Sony and Sony said we don't like it, it's crap, we can't hear a lead single, it's not finished so please work with the likes of timberland and give us a pop type song/anthem and then we will support. Dd may have had no choice in the matter and once involved of course they are going to say it was our idea I order to be credible in what they were doing. It's their album afterall, It makes sense. If you like DD are advised by thier bosses Sony at the time to work with a current producer Andy decides to leave meaning DD can not release reportage considering he's not in the band (remeber he was one fifth of who wrote it.) resulting in DD being forced to scrap it all and begin afresh without him, can you imagine the pressure, I can ! And that was the end of a two album deal with Sony. with the next LP AYNIN, ofcourse DD took it to the big labels, it's obvious coz that's what DD do, they do things in a big way yet which major label supported AYNIN?....................none of them ! They didn't want a bar of its sound. So DD pick it up regardless and release it independently thru shock/Tape Modern or whoever. What at a waste of good music IMO, let's face it the big labels don't want a "DD back to roots" sounding band and from DD's perspective if they want to have the support of a big label which comes with personal benefits, they will adapt to the market won't they. It's a catch two situation. Its good business sense. Like how many businesses adapt to their actual market, most in my experience do. So then PGs sounds radio friendly (despite no radio play) and guess what DD get signed to a big massive label err Warners. Im one of the lucky ones coz I love PGs all except for 3 songs out of the 17, I see where DD are coming from and understand the DD essence/DNA within that studio recording including how and why it sounds the way it does. thats my opinion anyway.
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Post by intravenus on Apr 19, 2019 22:57:10 GMT -5
I'm sure that if they hadn't gone in the direction of RCM, Andy probably would have stuck around. Well Andy was right... just sayin'
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Post by intravenus on Apr 19, 2019 23:30:39 GMT -5
although Dominic Brown contributed a lot for the band in the shadows, most of the Paper Gods lyrics were written by him, including some of the extra tracks not bloody likely!
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Post by Dr Of The Revolution on Apr 20, 2019 2:35:30 GMT -5
If I remember well, Dom Brown did co-write some of the songs on Paper Gods. But I don't think he wrote lyrics.
Actually, Dom Brown co-wrote a song on Paper Gods he didn't even play on ! Some of the guitar on Paper Gods is played by..... John Taylor !
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