Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2020 14:06:08 GMT -5
But a change of vocalist does not work the vast majority of the time. It worked with AC/DC, Genesis, who else? Ultravox was very different. They made a change before they reached ‘hit’ status. It’s the John Foxx fans who took exception to Midge Ure. I get what you’re saying about the music, but I couldn’t fathom looking at the artwork of an album cover by DD and seeing a complete line up change, except for Simon. It really isn’t Duran Duran. At least during PT and Medazzaland they didn’t add to the personnel who had gone. It only worked for Genesis the first time, the second time with that guy from Stiltskin was a disaster. Change of lead singer worked for Pink Floyd, Fleetwood Mac, Toto and Marillion. It did not work for INXS, Queen, Bronski Beat, FGTH, Johnny Hates Jazz and most others. It certainly will not work for Duran Duran. With Genesis, that’s what I meant with Phil Collins. I also quite liked Ryan Molloy on vocals with Frankie - he was good live. I’m not sure if he’s still with Frankie Goes to Hollywood though.
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Post by taylorism on Jul 2, 2020 14:31:28 GMT -5
But half of the Duranies i knew back then were like "we're out". I don't know if it was the imagery, the actual music or just the fact the Roger and Andy were gone. I think it was that last thing. If that record would have been released by the Fav 5, i believe the fandom would have embraced it. Personally, I wouldn't have cared if all the members were in the band or not. Theoretically, it would have sounded different, but not enough to salvage the album, or make it sound radical from what it became. If people only followed the band for the members, then they deserved to lose them as fans. To me, the music is more important than the members (except the lead singer). I usually don't like it when a lead singer changes, sometimes its good though. [When ultravox switched to midge ure from john foxx]. later -1 I agree, i never really understood people who were into the band just for the band members. I know, we all were 15 at one point, and boys like me were trying to imitate the look, and girls were dreaming about them, but most importantly, at least for me it was always the music, even at 15. But as Skinburn said, i couldn't take a Duran album with just Simon. It could be a great album, but i would take it as a Solo album.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2020 15:19:26 GMT -5
Personally, I wouldn't have cared if all the members were in the band or not. Theoretically, it would have sounded different, but not enough to salvage the album, or make it sound radical from what it became. If people only followed the band for the members, then they deserved to lose them as fans. To me, the music is more important than the members (except the lead singer). I usually don't like it when a lead singer changes, sometimes its good though. [When ultravox switched to midge ure from john foxx]. later -1 I agree, i never really understood people who were into the band just for the band members. I know, we all were 15 at one point, and boys like me were trying to imitate the look, and girls were dreaming about them, but most importantly, at least for me it was always the music, even at 15. But as Skinburn said, i couldn't take a Duran album with just Simon. It could be a great album, but i would take it as a Solo album. I read the comments on facebook and Twitter on DD’s page and I sometimes have to remind myself that this is not 1984. There are those who write comments, complete with heart emojis, as if they are 14 or 15. Live and let live I say.. but I just don’t understand it?
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ncduran
A few more posts....
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Post by ncduran on Jul 2, 2020 15:32:58 GMT -5
Simon would never put out an album on his own and call it 'Duran Duran'. Hell, he's never even done a solo album, which is crazy for someone of his musical stature and recognition.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2020 16:11:35 GMT -5
Simon would never put out an album on his own and call it 'Duran Duran'. Hell, he's never even done a solo album, which is crazy for someone of his musical stature and recognition. Yeah, but I guess that’s more about not wanting to leave his comfort zone than not being capable of following a solo career. I’m sure he could do it. Morton Harkett tried it to little success. Simon has always said he is a team player. He loves his friends in the band and he enjoys their company. They work better together than as individuals, as has already been proven. The band are only interested in making money now and ‘Simon Le Bon’ on an album cover just wouldn't work. Then think about streaming..he would hardly get any coverage there. There’s far bigger fish to fry with the DD brand.
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Post by madoldlu on Jul 2, 2020 16:38:28 GMT -5
That's not a totally fair statement though. Most of us here, who truly are fans of the MUSIC, do know and appreciate what the individual members brought to the group. So while sure, in 1985/86 there was a large group of the DD fans who were invested in the individual members solely for their looks or personalities, I can agree that those fans jumped ship or would abandon a band purely for the line-up. But most here on this board would, and did, not. We all stuck by because we believed in their music and believed in the trio. With that said, it WAS a big blow to find out Roger and Andy had permanently left the band because I, and most of us here, felt that their contributions to the music were intrinsic to the DD sound. It might have been an easier transition if only one had left for Notorious, and then the other for Big Thing. It might have made the whole ordeal a little easier to accept, as it would have been a more gradual evolution of the band and their sound.
And having said that, getting back on topic, I too think maybe DD went a little too "mature" with the sound and it affected their status in the charts. It's really not as easy as that though. As many have mentioned already, the musical landscape was changing rapidly, and since DD as a band had been missing for 2 years, it was like they had fallen behind. Power Station and Arcadia muddied the waters even more. Had DD broken up? Did the general population know or care about the side projects as they related to DD the band? That 2 year absence was a lifetime for the public and most of their fans had grown out of DD and/or moved on. Personally, it felt like an eternity to me. Consider that DD had put out new music every year of their existence up to that point, really just months apart up to AVTAK. I think Some Like It Hot and Election Day rode on those coattails, but definitely by the time Goodbye Is Forever came out, the luster had gone and it was "Duran who?". I remember how the DD brand was quickly sinking to oblivion, just as my interest was continuing to grow (as I had only just fully committed to my fandom around The Wild Boys). It was disheartening.
So when news started coming out about the new album (via Smash/Star Hits), I was of course excited. But then news started trickling in about Roger and then Andy. And even then I was still hopeful since I loved the Arcadia album and I thought it would be like Arcadia but with John (but no Roger)! Like I mentioned before, I did know what Andy and Roger brought to DD and it was extremely disappointing that they would not be a part of the band anymore, and I did expect to feel their absence.
Finally when the Notorious single came out, I was taken aback at the new sound! It did indeed sound completely foreign and it took me a bit to adjust. Personally, a big part of it was Simon's voice in the verses. It sounded higher and rougher/less refined than before. I found Election Day also had a change in his voice, but I attributed that to his Arcadia sound. I was expecting him to have that same lower deeper voice he did in the first 3 albums. So that was something that took me off guard. I also did find the drums a bit lacking. Nothing against the great Steve Ferrone, just that I missed Roger's flair and fills.
With the rest of the album, it wasn't necessarily that I didn't like it, it was more that I didn't like it to the level that I LOVED the first 3 albums and Arcadia. Generalizing, it was like those 4 albums all had 10s across the board, and Notorious had a lot of 7s. It definitely felt overall more mature and sophisticated of a sound. It wasn't unabashed "pop" like Planet Earth or Hungry or Reflex. And the lyrics weren't as cryptic and mystical as they were before either. I think I honestly missed Roger more than Andy.
The design of the album and singles was also a big change for me too. I missed the multi-layered, slick look of Assorted Images. Notorious was classy, but way too simple for me, especially after 7atRT and SRTR. I've mentioned it before, but Assorted Images's work with DD is what inspired me to go into a career in design. So it was particularly disappointing to see that they had severed their ties with them, on top of losing Andy and Roger. I was also annoyed that they abandoned the design look of Notorious and Skin Trade when they got to Meet El Presidente! I mean, that single sleeve design just came out of left field! It seemed sloppy to me.
But overall, I did/do love Notorious. It's definitely a highlight of their opus. But the new sound and look was indeed an adjustment. So I can see how it could have turned off whatever few fans they had left at the time. I think they lost most fans simply because of their absence. Coming back with a very different sound 2 years later cemented their descent. However, I do think it was the right choice to start maturing their sound, as they themselves grew older and grew as musicians. I just wished they didn't make such drastic changes in their sound from album to album, especially post Arcadia. I think that tends to alienate a lot of fans out there. I think the mature look does suit them, and I get all cringe-y when they try to be hip, like Simon's do-rag and cyclist spandex pants during Big Thing!
My fandom wavered more with Big Thing, finding their side 1 to be lacking overall. When I first heard IDWYL on the radio, I almost didn't believe it was them! It sounded so different! But also kinda cheap and pedestrian to me, like some obscure Miami dance club band like Expose or something. Then Liberty, which continued the downward trajectory for me.
Anyway, sorry for the very long post! I don't want to end on a sour note, so I'll say that even through all those dark times of the 90s for me, I still managed to find at least one or two gems in each album. And DD is still my favorite band. I LOVE AYNIN and really enjoy PG, so they are on a roll for me.
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oakey
PAPER GOD
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Post by oakey on Jul 3, 2020 9:14:15 GMT -5
My fandom wavered more with Big Thing, finding their side 1 to be lacking overall. When I first heard IDWYL on the radio, I almost didn't believe it was them! It sounded so different! But also kinda cheap and pedestrian to me, like some obscure Miami dance club band like Expose or something. Then Liberty, which continued the downward trajectory for me. ^^ THIS
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Post by Rabbit Dog on Jul 3, 2020 11:47:49 GMT -5
A change in lead singer also worked for Runrig, but their fanbase seems limited to UK/Germany/Denmark, so may not be the best example, but it was halfway through a 40 year career.
You could also argue Joy Division to New Order too, although the name change was a rebranding/restart.
Anyway, back to the thread...
I remember being uncomfortable with Notorious. Suddenly my favourite band were different. Not only were two of the Taylors gone, but there were a number of other changes that made it seem like Duran Duran were changing: no supporting videos from Russell Mulcahy, no artwork from Malcolm Garrett, and Andy Hamilton - who I felt was the "sixth Duran" was also absent. The music felt as though it had moved on more than you would expect between albums: I got the evolution from the First Album to Rio, and from Rio to Seven and the Ragged Tiger, but this seemed more like a revolution than evolution.
But it wasn't all bad: the title track, although very different, was absolute killer, and other highlights for the young version of me included American Science and Vertigo. Like many, I never quite got on with Meet El Presidente at the time, and still haven't. But otherwise the album grew to be a real favourite for me and now it sounds like a troubled band with their backs against the wall trying to funkily fight their way out of trouble.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2020 13:34:59 GMT -5
In Italy the Alfred Hitchcock-inspired album was very, very successful. At the time, the Trio was worshipped like the Trinity (sorry if I sound blasphemous, but it’s true...). Simon was the most famous person for the Italians. DD were all over. The girls especially went CRAZY for them. It was madness wherever they went. CRAZY I love Notorious (the song), Skin Trade and Vertigo. I also think that the Notorious cover was spectacular, pure class. Chart positions in Italy: Notorious (single) 1 Skin trade 10 Meet el presidente 16 Notorious (album) 2 Not bad, not bad!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2020 14:02:45 GMT -5
In Italy the Alfred Hitchcock-inspired album was very, very successful. At the time, the Trio was worshipped like the Trinity (sorry if I sound blasphemous, but it’s true...). Simon was the most famous person for the Italians. DD were all over. The girls especially went CRAZY for them. It was madness wherever they went. CRAZY I love Notorious (the song), Skin Trade and Vertigo. I also think that the Notorious cover was spectacular, pure class. Chart positions in Italy: Notorious (single) 1 Skin trade 10 Meet el presidente 16 Notorious (album) 2 Not bad, not bad! Absolutely! I remember it well! I have loads of video footage from that era - i just cant listen to the translation of the interviews too much. It’s hard work! Lol As much as there was a love affair going on, Italy isn’t enough. This is the on going ‘problem’ (or saga) with DD. They rest on their laurels and depend on geographics too much. Over the years the tours have become shorter because of less demand. Then they choose not to promote themselves in countries apart from the USA and its becomes a vicious circle - a never ending one. Where has that fight gone? The ‘never give up’ attitude?
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