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Post by madoldlu on Jul 21, 2020 14:06:01 GMT -5
I was about to write that lyrics don't really affect me unless it's a song that's on the fence. Then it might sway me one way or the other.
However, upon further reflection, I realize that part of my growing discontent of DD around Big Thing time was that Simon's lyrics grew increasingly more "normal" and less poetic and abstract. I think his odd, sci-fi-ish, non-sensical but evocative and visual lyrics were a big draw for me in the beginning up to 1985. Once his lyrics started to drift from that style, for me it kinda made them as a band a little less interesting. What I initially loved, his strange turn of phrase, or unique word choices, or magical descriptions, all that "poet's fire" were all changing into "frozen dust". Just pedestrian drivel. I feel like AYNIN significantly reversed course in that respect for me and continued in PG.
So yes, I can totally get what you'r'e saying, mediterranea.
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Post by Rabbit Dog on Jul 21, 2020 15:07:21 GMT -5
I was about to write that lyrics don't really affect me unless it's a song that's on the fence. Then it might sway me one way or the other. However, upon further reflection, I realize that part of my growing discontent of DD around Big Thing time was that Simon's lyrics grew increasingly more "normal" and less poetic and abstract. I think his odd, sci-fi-ish, non-sensical but evocative and visual lyrics were a big draw for me in the beginning up to 1985. Once his lyrics started to drift from that style, for me it kinda made them as a band a little less interesting. What I initially loved, his strange turn of phrase, or unique word choices, or magical descriptions, all that "poet's fire" were all changing into "frozen dust". Just pedestrian drivel. I feel like AYNIN significantly reversed course in that respect for me and continued in PG. So yes, I can totally get what you'r'e saying, mediterranea. I think I'm rather drawn to lyrics, and that's the part of a song that (literally) speaks to me, and I'm sure I've made a similar comment to yours about lamenting SLB's balance of lyrics going from poetic/oblique to more straightforward, which I agree happened in the mid 80s. He still has his moments, but they are fewer in proportion as time goes on. Critics have often labelled SLB's lyrics as a meaningless word salad, but I think his early lyrics can be well crafted and evocative, often almost dreamlike, and that was an appeal for me when getting into DD.
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Post by coolbarn on Jul 21, 2020 16:37:14 GMT -5
I'm with madoldlu when it comes to lyrics - normally I don't notice them too much, unless they're incredibly good, or incredibly bad.
As mentioned - change the lyrics and juvenile "shock value" lyrics to Bedroom Toys - and you have a winner
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Post by taylorism on Jul 22, 2020 22:02:36 GMT -5
I'm with madoldlu when it comes to lyrics - normally I don't notice them too much, unless they're incredibly good, or incredibly bad. As mentioned - change the lyrics and juvenile "shock value" lyrics to Bedroom Toys - and you have a winner I think hate that song a little bit more everyday I think of it. From day one I thought it was rubbish and make me feel ashamed for them. That kind of lyric would have had some kind of shock value on the first half of the 80s, but in 2004??! So out of touch. I would like to have an instrumental version of that track, cos the music has some nice groove, although is too repetitive, is almost just the same two bars for the whole song.
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Post by taylorism on Jul 22, 2020 22:04:40 GMT -5
Songs that make my ears bleed, and some sort of weird, salty water come out of my eyes: 1) Instrumentals - will skip them every time. Yes you heard right, you Tel Aviv and Tiger Tiger loving freaks 2) Winter Marches On. It just doesn't belong on Notorious; please wake me when it's over. 3) Drug - tuneless. I Believe/All I Need To Know is just sitting there, shaking its cute little head, wondering why it couldn't make the album, but Drug could. 4) Venice Drowning & Downtown - I can't end Liberty on that note, or those two songs. I'm surprised at the lack of love for Can You Deal With It - it's amazing compared to that rubbish, and I'm happy to end Liberty on a high after track nine 5) Shotgun - what a waste of time. Let me get this straight - the band had Falling Angel, Stop Dead, Time For Temptation, and Matter Of Fact up their sleeve, but they included this??? Duran, please??? 6) Silva Halo, Be My Icon, Buried In The Sand. The unholy trinity, and the worst Duran trifecta of all time. What a weak album Medazzaland is - there is no way it would have consolidated on the success of The Wedding Album, if the band had released that instead of Thank You. 7) Hallucinating Elvis - Very well deserving participant in this thread; not only is it tuneless, but it is also about three minutes too long. Skinburn said at least you can listen to it with a spliff; truth be told I have never taken a drug stronger than panadol, but I don't think there is enough pot in Columbia to help me make it through all five and a half minutes. 8) The Sun Doesn't Shine Forever - Please don't operate heavy machinery for at least 12 hours after listening to this. 9) Most of Red Carpet Massacre. 10) Last Night In The City - yes I know there are a lot worse songs than that, but it loses extra marks because the band think it's so great, and a video was even made for it 11) You Kill Me With Silence - Boring, tuneless, soul-less. Would prefer to die listening to silence, than hearing the track and living. 12) Danceophobia - There were approximately 79 versions tested, which was 80 too many. I agree with more than half of your choices, but I cannot believe you don't enjoy a good instrumental. Care to tell why?
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Post by coolbarn on Jul 23, 2020 3:07:23 GMT -5
I agree with more than half of your choices, but I cannot believe you don't enjoy a good instrumental. Care to tell why? Yes. Because I have never heard a "good instrumental" Seriously, I don't know why. I don't know whether deep down I'm wondering whether the artist came up with some music that they liked, but then the band couldn't invent a worthy vocal melody, so they thought "f___ it, let's release it anyway" I know it doesn't make sense. I know many times I have said that lyrics don't worry me very much, unless they're either really good, or really bad. And I'm not one of those people who absolutely adore Simon Lebon's voice. I like it, I have grown to like it, but I don't turn into a little puddle on the floor whenever he sings. So theoretically - I SHOULD love instrumentals right? That's the funny thing about music - it's not mathematics. You can't explain subjective feelings, and likes and dislikes, like you can with a transitive mathematical formula. Theoretically I should love Safe (In The Heat Of The Moment). The bassline leads the song, which I love. We've got funky guitar chords. We've got some cool percussion. We have minimal keyboards which add to the song, and don't over-run it. That is my blueprint for great music right there. However there is something about the tune of Safe. The vocal melody. The stop-start nature of the song. Overall it just doesn't grab me. Conversely, All She Wants Is does everything wrong. It's pandering to current music trends. It's repetitive. It's got boring, looped drumming, with virtually no fills. It's got synth bass. What's to like about it? I don't know. But I love it. Maybe Warren's amazing guitar work elevated the track, and allowed it to transcend those limitations?
My point is - I don't know why I love EVERY song that I love, nor do I know why I dislike every song I dislike. Some things are obvious and stand out like dogs' balls. Other things don't make sense. I can't argue with my heart, but I can argue with my head all day long. However, I won't win every battle. Or maybe ANY battle Did I answer the question? Maybe it's not Simon's voice per se, but his vocal melodies that grab me. And I'm yet to hear an instrumental with an amazing vocal melody
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2020 5:54:01 GMT -5
Songs that make my ears bleed, and some sort of weird, salty water come out of my eyes: 1) Instrumentals - will skip them every time. Yes you heard right, you Tel Aviv and Tiger Tiger loving freaks 2) Winter Marches On. It just doesn't belong on Notorious; please wake me when it's over. 3) Drug - tuneless. I Believe/All I Need To Know is just sitting there, shaking its cute little head, wondering why it couldn't make the album, but Drug could. 4) Venice Drowning & Downtown - I can't end Liberty on that note, or those two songs. I'm surprised at the lack of love for Can You Deal With It - it's amazing compared to that rubbish, and I'm happy to end Liberty on a high after track nine 5) Shotgun - what a waste of time. Let me get this straight - the band had Falling Angel, Stop Dead, Time For Temptation, and Matter Of Fact up their sleeve, but they included this??? Duran, please??? 6) Silva Halo, Be My Icon, Buried In The Sand. The unholy trinity, and the worst Duran trifecta of all time. What a weak album Medazzaland is - there is no way it would have consolidated on the success of The Wedding Album, if the band had released that instead of Thank You. 7) Hallucinating Elvis - Very well deserving participant in this thread; not only is it tuneless, but it is also about three minutes too long. Skinburn said at least you can listen to it with a spliff; truth be told I have never taken a drug stronger than panadol, but I don't think there is enough pot in Columbia to help me make it through all five and a half minutes. 8) The Sun Doesn't Shine Forever - Please don't operate heavy machinery for at least 12 hours after listening to this. 9) Most of Red Carpet Massacre. 10) Last Night In The City - yes I know there are a lot worse songs than that, but it loses extra marks because the band think it's so great, and a video was even made for it 11) You Kill Me With Silence - Boring, tuneless, soul-less. Would prefer to die listening to silence, than hearing the track and living. 12) Danceophobia - There were approximately 79 versions tested, which was 80 too many. Agree with everything apart from three items. I’m using mobile so I can’t be fannying around looking for numbers. No disrespect. Shotgun is very much embedded in TWA now. It’s part and parcel of its DNA now and segues beautifully into Come Undone. I expect that is partly why it was used. I mean come on, if the band had used other tracks that didn’t make the ‘complete’ album we wouldn’t have the U.K. limited 2CD set - for which I’m really thankful for. I love Falling Angel (or is it ‘fallen’? - I can never remember) but it was left off the initial release because it doesn’t sound like a TWA song - the same as Breath After Breath (another song that I enjoy). Similar to Winter Marches On..and on...and on etc etc on Notorious. It’s such a bore!! Big Thing represented psychedelia. The abstract colours of the album artwork just wouldn’t have suited ‘I Believe’. Can you imagine a yawn fest of a song on a dance album? Besides, there were enough ballads on Big Thing already. Instrumentals? Nah, nothing like a good practise to see if you know the lyrics without cheating - obviously when there’s nobody home to hear the cats chorus.
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Post by madoldlu on Jul 23, 2020 9:53:15 GMT -5
I agree with more than half of your choices, but I cannot believe you don't enjoy a good instrumental. Care to tell why? Yes. Because I have never heard a "good instrumental" Seriously, I don't know why. I don't know whether deep down I'm wondering whether the artist came up with some music that they liked, but then the band couldn't invent a worthy vocal melody, so they thought "f___ it, let's release it anyway" I know it doesn't make sense. I know many times I have said that lyrics don't worry me very much, unless they're either really good, or really bad. And I'm not one of those people who absolutely adore Simon Lebon's voice. I like it, I have grown to like it, but I don't turn into a little puddle on the floor whenever he sings. So theoretically - I SHOULD love instrumentals right? That's the funny thing about music - it's not mathematics. You can't explain subjective feelings, and likes and dislikes, like you can with a transitive mathematical formula. Theoretically I should love Safe (In The Heat Of The Moment). The bassline leads the song, which I love. We've got funky guitar chords. We've got some cool percussion. We have minimal keyboards which add to the song, and don't over-run it. That is my blueprint for great music right there. However there is something about the tune of Safe. The vocal melody. The stop-start nature of the song. Overall it just doesn't grab me. Conversely, All She Wants Is does everything wrong. It's pandering to current music trends. It's repetitive. It's got boring, looped drumming, with virtually no fills. It's got synth bass. What's to like about it? I don't know. But I love it. Maybe Warren's amazing guitar work elevated the track, and allowed it to transcend those limitations?
My point is - I don't know why I love EVERY song that I love, nor do I know why I dislike every song I dislike. Some things are obvious and stand out like dogs' balls. Other things don't make sense. I can't argue with my heart, but I can argue with my head all day long. However, I won't win every battle. Or maybe ANY battle Did I answer the question? Maybe it's not Simon's voice per se, but his vocal melodies that grab me. And I'm yet to hear an instrumental with an amazing vocal melody Thanks for such a thoughtful response, CB. I like reading people's thoughts especially when explaining an unpopular POV. Just one follow-up to this: do you like movie soundtracks? Or even classical/orchestral music? I know that's not entirely a fair question since they are all completely different genres. But I wanted to know if it's the lack of vocals that you find unappealing or or a lack of vocals in a rock/pop song. Like, do you think a pop song consists of drums, guitars, bass, keyboards and vocals, with vocals being the most important ingredient, and therefore is utterly incomplete and lacking without vocals? As for the rest of your response regarding songs having a certain je ne sais quoi and there's no real rhyme or reason as to why you love one song and hate another: I absolutely understand. There's something about DD's stuff from mid-Big Thing through RCM that I simply cannot express or articulate. I'm being very broad because obviously I don't hate everything during those years and in fact do like a good bit of it and love a few here and there. I don't know if it's really simply the production styles either. I think it's more elemental--there's something about the songwriting or song structures or something that just doesn't appeal to me. And something that they started doing again with AYNIN and continued with PG that seems to have fixed it. It's especially noticeable to me with Astronaut because there's a quality in the songwriting there that for me makes it sound like Warren never left. Obviously Andy is not doing all the fancy experimentations with the guitar sound, so it's not the aesthetics of the guitar sound that I'm referring to. If somehow I didn't know about the reunion, I would have honestly thought it was still Taylor Rhodes LeBon Cuccurullo. Go figure.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2020 2:58:58 GMT -5
Ladies and gentlemen of the jury - you now have the evidence before you...
How many songs posted here - involved Andy Taylor?
Your honor, I hereby submit my closing argument - it is clear that only one and one only is GUILTY and the ONE to BLAME for ALL of THIS...
Let the court find *MASTER Rhodes* GUILTY on all counts - NR - it is ALL YOUR FAULT
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Post by coolbarn on Jul 24, 2020 22:08:19 GMT -5
do you like movie soundtracks? Or even classical/orchestral music? I would say I like quite a few movie soundtracks. I am a massive Star Wars fan, so of course think John Williams is a genius. I guess I love iconic soundtracks from iconic movies. Besides Star Wars, of course you have things like Indiana Jones, James Bond (pretty good one in 1985 ), Back To The Future, Jaws, etc etc etc. Normally if you love the movie, then you will often love the music associated with that movie. So yeah - I'm a movie fan (like most people) and so am a soundtrack fan as well. As for classical/orchestral music - I think it is great. I could only listen to it in small doses mind you, as after a while it would probably start to bore me. But if you put on an hour of the greatest classical music ever written, then I could happily sit there for an hour and not look at my watch once. I would just close my eyes, and be enthralled by the beautiful instrumentation, the composition, how the instruments fit all together, and just enjoy the sound and emotion the composer wishes to convey. Would I want to do that every day though? No, probably not. I know that a lot of the music is genius, and it takes an incredible amount of skill and knowledge to compose music comprised of many different instruments, but after a while I want to nod my head a little. Maybe even shake my hips. And that's where Duran Duran comes in I know that's not entirely a fair question since they are all completely different genres. But I wanted to know if it's the lack of vocals that you find unappealing or or a lack of vocals in a rock/pop song. Like, do you think a pop song consists of drums, guitars, bass, keyboards and vocals, with vocals being the most important ingredient, and therefore is utterly incomplete and lacking without vocals? I think that's a great question! And you're right - for me there is a big difference between soundtracks/classical music, and rock/pop songs. They are completely different creatures, so as a result they have completely different "rules". Movie soundtracks have one job - help people enjoy a movie. They do that by adding to a scene, and enhancing it. Often they'll use happy music for happy scenes, or sad music for sad scenes. Often times music will tell the tale better than having a character spell it out via dialogue - this makes it more personal. If YOU work out that the scene is sad by the music, then that is better than having a character explain to you why the scene is sad and that you should feel that way. Remember movies are about how you feel while you watch them - you shouldn't have a movie director walking you through each scene telling you how to feel. Music helps achieve this. As a result, soundtracks don't need vocals. Could you imagine watching Jaws, and as soon as the iconic "duunnn dunnn … duuuunnnn duun" starts up, then you have the popular singer of the day belting out "Jaws is a giant shark, about to eat that lady". Wouldn't work. The movie made that piece of music frightening. Before you saw Jaws, if you heard that music on its own you'd probably think - well that's pretty cool, it starts out slow, and quickly builds to a crescendo, yeah I could see that working in a movie somewhere. It's exciting, like something is about to happen. But it wouldn't stop you swimming in the ocean. And in a symbiotic relationship, the music made the movie frightening. They worked hand in hand - as soon as you heard that music - you knew shit was about to go down. You couldn't see Jaws (it was brilliant that they don't introduce him properly until the second half of the film), but you knew he was around there somewhere. After you see the film, then yeah - that movie with its music could stop you swimming in the ocean if you heard it. Put on the Jaws theme now. And tell me you don't get some sort of feeling from listening to it. Possibly strong feelings, determined by how old you were when you saw Jaws, and how much it affected you when you watched it. That's what a great movie soundtrack can do. That's the beauty of orchestral music - it doesn't need lyrics to convey emotion. However, pop/rock is different. I listen to that music to be entertained by the entire package, and for me - the entire package includes a vocal melody. We have seen how important a good vocal melody is - for example the music of Taste The Summer is really cool. However, how Simon sings the song ruins the experience for me, so that is why I never listen to it any more. Maybe it's because I'm a drummer, but I like a faster, almost "percussive" type of vocal melody. Don't get me wrong - there is nothing wrong with the odd, extended note, to add emotion to the song, and to show the listener that the singer has a strong voice. You don't buy a Celine Dion or Whitney Houston album only hoping to hear faster, rap like tracks. You know there will be plenty of ballads full of major keys. But I prefer a faster vocal style, like something you'd get from The Red Hot Chili Peppers. I also like REM, so prefer Michael Stipe to sing a quicker, percussive sort of melody as well. I don't like REM songs where his vocal melody is too drawn out either, just like with Simon Lebon. And I don't discriminate - I will always skip REM instrumentals and regard them as a complete waste of time - just like I do with Duran Duran As for the rest of your response regarding songs having a certain je ne sais quoi and there's no real rhyme or reason as to why you love one song and hate another: I absolutely understand. There's something about DD's stuff from mid-Big Thing through RCM that I simply cannot express or articulate. I'm being very broad because obviously I don't hate everything during those years and in fact do like a good bit of it and love a few here and there. I don't know if it's really simply the production styles either. I think it's more elemental--there's something about the songwriting or song structures or something that just doesn't appeal to me. And something that they started doing again with AYNIN and continued with PG that seems to have fixed it. It's especially noticeable to me with Astronaut because there's a quality in the songwriting there that for me makes it sound like Warren never left. Obviously Andy is not doing all the fancy experimentations with the guitar sound, so it's not the aesthetics of the guitar sound that I'm referring to. If somehow I didn't know about the reunion, I would have honestly thought it was still Taylor Rhodes LeBon Cuccurullo. Go figure. Wow, that's really interesting Lou. I myself have never noticed such a thing - sure I like some albums more than others, but I have never really noticed a major shift from Big Thing through to RCM. For me, it's just been that some albums have worked, but some haven't. And I put that down to the band's decisions and implementations at that time. So many things can influence a group of people. Who is heavily involved in the project? What is his/their current headspace like? How does this gel with the others? What about the producers? What style of music do they want to make? How much pressure is associated with this album? Etc Etc. Can you give examples of the songwriting and song structures that particularly don't appeal to you between Big Thing and RCM? And how do they differ from the debut album, Rio, S&TRT, Notorious, AYNIN, and Paper Gods? I think that's very interesting
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