oakey
PAPER GOD
Posts: 2,600
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Post by oakey on Aug 19, 2017 1:00:53 GMT -5
We all have to face the fact that Duran will never achieve the heights of their early work, simply because no older band or artist is able to do that. We all are most creative when we're young, troubled, on drugs etc. But later in life, we settle, become stable and get other interests, start a family, then a second one, play golf, become interested in financial aspects of our careers that we did not even think about when we were younger, etc. Those who stay on drugs become less and less creative and more and more troubled (Brian Wilson, Nico, Steve Strange, Syd B), the others become more comfortable in doing what they do best, ie making music, paintings, etc., but become less and less surprising (Pink Floyd, Stones, McCartney, Nick Cave, New Order, Picasso, Dali etc etc).
I am a huge Bowie fan and while I like some of his recent work, his last songs that I consider brilliant (again IMO) are from Outside (an album full of filler, but also with Hallo Spaceboy and Strangers when we meet), which dates from 1995 when he was in his 40s. Duran are in their fifties now, SlB will turn 60 next year, so what do you expect. In a way I am glad they are not making the same album over and over again as many 80s artists do (sometimes even literally in the sense that every new album contains new versions of their old hits), and that they are still making new music that is commercial (rather than trying to be experimental or art rock which they never were). But it also bears the risk that the outcome is not to everyone's liking (compare it to Dylan or Bolan going electric, which some of their fans hated at the time, the Stones going disco or Queen starting to use more and more synths). Duran's 'rock' fans will hate everything that reeks of EDM, Duran's pop fans (incl the casual fans) do not care for the pop trash they created in the late 90s.
Let's see what the future brings musicwise. The band has always been very poor at keeping the momentum, so the major "risk" for me is that they take too long to create something new or tour anywhere near here, making me lose interest and not care anymore in the end.
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Post by poptrash on Aug 19, 2017 1:30:05 GMT -5
Oakey, i don't think the fans will need to face the fact that DD will never archieve the heights of their work (apart from one or two, lol), but DD themselves...
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oakey
PAPER GOD
Posts: 2,600
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Post by oakey on Aug 19, 2017 2:19:10 GMT -5
Oakey, i don't think the fans will need to face the fact that DD will never archieve the heights of their work (apart from one or two, lol), but DD themselves... Yes, in a way it is a bit odd that they say they want to be relevant for young people, even when it's clear that they are not. But still, if this is the music they want to make, they should make it. To draw the Bowie parallel again: even this is something Bowie did. With Earthling, his 1997 album, he also wanted to be current and relevant. IMO this album is so dated sound-wise it has become unlistenable. Also, the praise it got in reviews at the time is completely absent from current retrospectives. In turn, many of his songs that got trashed at the time for being "too commercial" are among his best IMO (I consider Loving the alien, This is not America, Absolute Beginners or Let's Dance vastly superior to the standard 70s rock of Jean Genie, Rebel Rebel, Suffragette City, Star etc). Same with Duran: I prefer Nice to Secret Oktober and Pressure Off to Tel Aviv).
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Post by Xxxxxx on Aug 19, 2017 8:25:41 GMT -5
I love that they have tried various styles and explored new horizons; but as time is winding down, for all of us, lol, I make no apologies wanting one more dose of THEIR distinct early sound.
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Post by americanscientist on Aug 19, 2017 8:35:19 GMT -5
Was fairly disappointed in RCM because it just didn't sound inspired to me. I revisit RCM from time to time as it is a fascinating trainwreck of an album. You can definitely hear a band that is exhausted and has relinquished control of the project to the producers. After recording Reportage, having it rejected, losing Andy and then starting all over, I doubt the band could muster the energy required for a brand new project. There are a few sparks of life when the band is all in and pushing the new sound forward (The Valley, title track, She's Too Much), but the rest is either coasting (DGM, Zooming In) or yielding control to the production team (Nite Runner, Tempted, Skin Divers). I think the band actually learned a great deal from the experience and now truly take their time now between albums. That
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trevgreg
PAPER GOD
[Mo0:17]
Posts: 2,613
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Post by trevgreg on Aug 19, 2017 14:55:14 GMT -5
I cringe when I read others trying to tell the band how they should sound. Honestly as long as it sounds inspiring to them and to me I'm good. Fans that don't like it should form their own band and record a Duran inspired album to stay happy. I personally love PG. Was fairly disappointed in RCM because it just didn't sound inspired to me. Truth be told, it’s pretty much like that on any band’s message board for the most part. The newer stuff will be judged to an extent by everyone, a bit more harshly by some and the opposite way for another few. Usually, that’s how it goes. The only time I ever get a tad annoyed by it is when the criticism reaches points where it gets a bit personal (i.e., they're "bad" people because they wrote a song someone didn't really like). When it gets to that, I just want to remind people that it's just music... not huge political decisions or acts of war, you know? The interesting thing about bands that have been around as long as DD, and also explored a lot of areas sonically, is that those discussions will definitely go the way of what the “correct” sound is or what this person believes is their strong suit. U2 discussion boards, for example, are very similar in that respect. And there’s probably a few people in those parts which make places like this look tame in comparison! I’ve shared on here in the past that I’ve delved a bit into songwriting over the years myself (with most likely mediocre results, haha). But some of the things that I’ve gotten out of more recent attempts is a bit of perspective when it comes to doing it and how exactly it’s done. There’s days where you feel inspired enough to write and complete something fairly quickly (mere hours, a day, etc.). Then there’s times that you struggle to finish something. Then you have a group of songs you worked on, think they’re great… then come back to a bit later and think it’s mostly crap. Or you more or less complete something and think it’s ready for whatever (or in the case of real musicians, release it), excited about it and thinking it’s the greatest thing you’ve done. Then you come back to it and have a more critical ear and just hear the flaws (and if you’re a real musician, say something mildly negative in an interview and draw the ire of fans that loved it). Anyways, I digress… but one thing I did want to throw out there was about the idea of a band doing this sound or that. From what I understand, this band usually works in a room together and jams until something comes out of it. Chord progressions, BPMs, that sort of thing… then they work on it until it’s more or less complete. Has the right instruments, lyrics get finished over Simon’s original melody lines he hummed or sang, etc. There might be a general idea as to what they might want to try or do for an album, but the specific points are pretty much formed as they’re working on whatever. Only speaking from my experience, but I think it would be very difficult to get something to sound natural if I absolutely had to sound a certain way or write things in a specific style. In other words, something that would be more of a ‘restriction’ rather than something I can just sort of wing. A lot of the songwriting process, whether it’s Duran jamming or Ed Sheeran sitting down with an acoustic guitar or Max Martin programming something with his co-producer on a keyboard, is just coming up with something and playing around with it until it sounds “right” in your head. Not many of them go into something and think “Okay, it has to sound this way or I can only use these instruments or sing about this topic”. Part of me wonders if this explains why John said the band had some reservations about AYNIN in the long run, ultimately. For a good chunk of fans, the songs themselves worked for the most part. But I can also imagine being a band member and thinking “I already did this!” or “Mark’s asking us to sing about girls, so I guess we have to write a song about girls.” It’s hard to explain, but if I restricted myself a lot in writing something because it HAD to sound this way or have this in it, then it’s a bit harder to write something and have it sound any good (imo). It can ultimately work, but there’s also a reason why we don’t have AI machines writing all sorts of hit songs by now… you need a bit of room to play around too. Some people don’t like songs with a drum machine. I don’t think every song has to sound like John Bonham is banging away on them either. But a lot of songwriting is just going into a room and trying new things until something sounds okay. A freaking lot of it is just chance too. I could come back to an instrumental I wrote on a Tuesday and start out a lyric saying “I took a walk in the park one day”, but if it was a Wednesday instead, I might write “This is all for nothing now”… or something, lol. Ultimately, that’s what a lot of it is… you just write something and work on it, making millions of little decisions on the way that could affect it, until it’s complete and ready to go. And from what I know, restricting yourself to sound or write a certain way doesn’t give creative people a lot of room to breathe and make more of those decisions. Which, in my opinion, can make the work suffer to some extent. At this point, we’re pretty lucky there’s still four healthy guys ready and able to record stuff every few years. People who are fans of, say, Prince or Soundgarden or Linkin Park would probably do anything to be back in that position. I’m not going to like everything DD does, just as I don’t like everything they’ve done before that either. But more often that not, whatever decisions they make, I usually get at least something out of every album they put out. And for the most part, that’s enough for me by this point.
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Post by Xxxxxx on Aug 19, 2017 19:18:18 GMT -5
I cringe when I read others trying to tell the band how they should sound. Well Mark Ronson was probably cringing when he heard the wiki-wikis in Skin Divers which is why he got the bright idea to tell them to go back to their early sound for AYNIN...and the band listened! That classic sound IS the signature sound... Yes! And within that sound, with some imagination, the possibilities are endless. More than anything I want a sound that is created with real instruments with the synth elements playing a supporting role.
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Post by mynick7 on Aug 20, 2017 0:12:03 GMT -5
Not much more to add to this thread. Every album that Duran has put out has had some strong songs and some skip songs on them. What I like is that those songs vary for each Duran fan. And that's okay. I'm not looking for the guys to make a "part 2" of anything, but whatever direction they choose to go, I know I will enjoy something on it.
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Post by dejr26 on Aug 20, 2017 2:38:39 GMT -5
I cringe when I hear inferior music such as albums like pee pee gods! Duran know they can only make great music with the fab five sound and not this contrived disney world wanting to be in the top 40 crap. Sadly, some of the kool aid drinking fans that thirst for anything will accept anything the band does with no regard to music quality. If anyone thinks different, you're not a fan of the band's best sound, but a foe and need to flush your mugs in the loo a few hundred times. I'm a foe then. I like Paper Gods and have no shame in admitting it. I think I can just about handle dealing with 2 EDM tracks out of about 18 New songs we got without throwing a strop. For me personally, their last 2 albums are their best since Notorious. Pretty much every album Duran has made been different from the other, which in some ways can be frustrating but is probably one reason why I remain a fan nearly 30 years later. For all the ups and downs they remain interesting, pushing themselves musically, even if it doesn't always pay off.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2017 17:24:28 GMT -5
Agreed. AYNIN did sound inspired to me because Ronson did hold the band to a higher standard of songwriting. I have no problem with the band revisiting their old sound but they did put a fresh spin on it.
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