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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2019 20:31:44 GMT -5
He is, same as Chris Lowe despite the stillness. CL actually reads the notes while playing.
Chris dancing to "In The Night" while his Apple MacBook Pro/Logic does a absolutely fabulous job
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Post by coolbarn on Nov 10, 2019 9:21:17 GMT -5
Put another way… if Nile yelled at me to play a G-7b6 on the keyboard, there’d be no way to I’d be playing that instantly (like Nick apparently did during that one studio session). If none of us have no clue what that means and much less how to do it, then I’m not really sure we’d be the best ones to say whether someone can “play” or not. Sorry Trev, can't agree with that. You don't have to have ever played a sport, or been an expert at a sport, to know whether somebody can play or not. You telling me people in wheel-chairs who have watched thousands of hours of football and studied the history and debated the stats with other dieheard fans don't have a valid opinion of who can play or not? There would be virtually NO water-cooler chat on a Monday morning at any company in the world if only people who have experience as an olympic-level athlete were allowed to discuss it. Every regular on this forum has been following Duran Duran for some time, most of us for almost 40 years. We have been watching musical performances from Duran and other artists for most of that time as well. We mightn't understand musical theory, or be able to read music, but we certainly know whether a musician we have been following closely for most of our life can play or not compared to other professional musicians. All you need is at least half a brain and some memory, and that applies to every good person in this forum I've always disliked the old "well you can't do it so don't criticise it" theory. Not accusing you of this Trev, but it's often used by people who don't like what they're hearing so simply try to shoot the messenger. It is an ad hominem form of attack used to try and discredit a person and take attention off the fact that what is being said is probably true. So in light of this, and the topic, all I can say is that there isn't too much proof on the internet that Nick Rhodes is a very capable keyboard player. There are plenty of clips on Youtube of impressive "live, in the flesh, real" keyboard playing, some of them by well-known players and some of them from unknown randoms. There aren't too many of Nick Rhodes proving this however. But on the other side of the coin there aren't too many which PROVE Nick to be hopeless as well. The closest thing we have is the fact that he is known to mime a lot because his parts are plentiful and difficult to replicate live. Does the fact that somebody mimes rather than plays actually PROVE that he can't play though? Sure it suggests a deficiency, and I know most musicians with chops love to prove it, but maybe Nick is just one of those guys who DOESN'T believe he has anything to prove so doesn't bother even trying to do so!
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Post by andre005 on Nov 10, 2019 20:09:52 GMT -5
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oakey
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Post by oakey on Nov 11, 2019 1:04:44 GMT -5
Yes he is 😀 This clip shows his live keyboard skills very well. I think that is his skill level indeed...
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trevgreg
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Post by trevgreg on Nov 11, 2019 15:07:41 GMT -5
Sorry Trev, can't agree with that. You don't have to have ever played a sport, or been an expert at a sport, to know whether somebody can play or not. You telling me people in wheel-chairs who have watched thousands of hours of football and studied the history and debated the stats with other dieheard fans don't have a valid opinion of who can play or not? There would be virtually NO water-cooler chat on a Monday morning at any company in the world if only people who have experience as an olympic-level athlete were allowed to discuss it. Every regular on this forum has been following Duran Duran for some time, most of us for almost 40 years. We have been watching musical performances from Duran and other artists for most of that time as well. We mightn't understand musical theory, or be able to read music, but we certainly know whether a musician we have been following closely for most of our life can play or not compared to other professional musicians. All you need is at least half a brain and some memory, and that applies to every good person in this forum I've always disliked the old "well you can't do it so don't criticise it" theory. Not accusing you of this Trev, but it's often used by people who don't like what they're hearing so simply try to shoot the messenger. It is an ad hominem form of attack used to try and discredit a person and take attention off the fact that what is being said is probably true. So in light of this, and the topic, all I can say is that there isn't too much proof on the internet that Nick Rhodes is a very capable keyboard player. There are plenty of clips on Youtube of impressive "live, in the flesh, real" keyboard playing, some of them by well-known players and some of them from unknown randoms. There aren't too many of Nick Rhodes proving this however. But on the other side of the coin there aren't too many which PROVE Nick to be hopeless as well. The closest thing we have is the fact that he is known to mime a lot because his parts are plentiful and difficult to replicate live. Does the fact that somebody mimes rather than plays actually PROVE that he can't play though? Sure it suggests a deficiency, and I know most musicians with chops love to prove it, but maybe Nick is just one of those guys who DOESN'T believe he has anything to prove so doesn't bother even trying to do so! All good dude. I didn’t quite mean it in that context, but maybe I could have worded that in some other way! In any event, I didn’t really mean that in the sense of “If you can’t do it, then don’t knock it.” If that were the case, then we’d all be immune from criticizing we’ve never done. Be it a movie or a sporting event or such. That said, I do think there’s some merit in actually knowing a bit about how something works. Which helps when it comes to the question like "Can so and so play," as opposed to just whether or not you like something better or not as a listener. Like I’ve hinted at in the past, I’m a mediocre amateur musician myself (and maybe that’s an overstatement on top of it, lol). But I know my way around how some stuff in music operates or how instruments play. Does that mean I’m one of the few who can like something or not? No, of course not. But it doesn’t mean I can’t identify things and be like “This is this and that is that.” That’s sort of what I was hinting at with Nick. Even though I can’t really play keyboards myself, I know enough from my own experience (and other things) to know that you can’t play one for 40 years and learn absolutely nothing on it. Or not have any more physical capabilities than when you started in 1978 or whatever it was. It’s… just… not… happening. If you’re comparing that to someone at the top of your game, then you’re comparing abilities as opposed to one’s individual accomplishments. But I know enough that someone spending hours upon hours worth of time around musical equipment or synths or whatever, and actually doing stuff with them, is not going to be a “bad” player. Or lack the ability to play anything beyond what they did 40 years ago. Whether you're a keyboard player or a guitarist or otherwise. Like I said, it’s just not happening. Playing up to one’s satisfaction on an individual level, or one using the fact that they enjoy miming at live shows? Obviously, that depends on who you ask. But you can’t be around those things and not learn how to play adequately on some level. And if people can’t identify that, then I might question whether they know how easy it is to make a decent sound come out of these things. And I don’t mean that as a criticism either. By that, I mean that if someone even has a bit of training on something, then they’ll tend to find quickly that a lot of music in the pop-rock world is actually fairly easy to play… and even on just a “minor” level of ability. A lot of this stuff is not super complex things to learn. For example, a lot of beginning guitar players can play an E major on the seventh fret for Andy’s guitar riff on Careless Memories… or play Warren’s Ordinary World lead line on the high e string. A lot of people can recreate the basics for Nick’s lead synth lines on, say, Save a Prayer or Planet Earth with nothing but their ear. A halfway accomplished bass player can probably even try to make his way through the Girls on Film or Rio bass lines without completely butchering it. You might not get it to the point of being a complete replica, but it’s not exactly jazz parts we’re trying to learn here either! In other words, maybe Nick isn’t playing keyboards at 90 miles per hour like some famous pianists out there (or synth players that play at such a speed)… but those abilities don’t really translate well to what type of music Duran makes anyway. Or require a classically trained pianist or guitar player or such. Sometimes you just have to press down the right chord or hit a few notes the right way, and that seems to be all it took at times to make some of the songs we loved. I don’t need behind the scenes footage 24/7 to prove to me that people can play these things, because it probably wouldn’t be possible to release these songs if they didn’t have at least some abilities gained from over the years. They already had enough by the time the first album came around too, so I highly doubt that they just sat around and gained nothing in terms of talent or experience in the decades that followed.
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Post by aftertherain on Nov 11, 2019 16:59:19 GMT -5
Totally agree with you Trev
And I also don't see any reason why nick ought to attend music lessons to improve his playing craft
At 17 the guy formed DD (with his best mate) at 21 he was playing arenas (the tennis centre in my home town) & on his way to becoming a millionaire by 83/84 if he wasn't already?
Why the need to attend keyboard/piano lessons considering what he was doing was working anyway. Eg ITSISK, TR, AVTAK Besides DD wouldn't sound quite the same if he had changed his process/mindset.
I look at my industry, I could do further study, honours, MBA, PhD, masters degree (one could say it could improve what I do or attain an in-depth understanding which wouldn't be used on a day to day basis) just good to know info. Yet my situation is that I'm happy with two decent cars in the driveway, a nice house in the suburbs & annual family holidaying. Like improve my craft, but for who? There's enough on the job training as it is with my work.
I feel if people are happy with the success they've achieved/where they're currently at, honestly why bother further studying to get better at what you're already successfully and happy doing. (& Better in who's opinion anyway?), by all means do further study if you're still searching for something. In Nicks case he's got millions when compared to the rest of us anyway.
Besides from a commercial perspective, it's in the music industries hands which controls his ongoing future success anyway. Eg the lack of radio play.
DD (&bands in general) pay a producer to improve, expand their momentary skills or shed a different perspective, it's therefore not a necessity that every band member knows all the various chords & therefore can read & write music.
My words to Nick are:
Whatever ya been doing since 1981 umm please continue doing it ! That goes for the rest of DD too (& including AT should he get "the honour" to return for a 3rd time?)
Again, There's no need whatsoever for you to attend music lessons since achieving his phenomenal success in the early 80s without having had music lessons in the first place !!!
I absolutely love "underdogs" having extraordinary success, it suggests innovation & a certain intelligence with no pen n paper or lecture theatre required for that matter !
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trevgreg
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Post by trevgreg on Nov 11, 2019 21:59:40 GMT -5
Totally agree with you Trev And I also don't see any reason why nick ought to attend music lessons to improve his playing craft At 17 the guy formed DD (with his best mate) at 21 he was playing arenas (the tennis centre in my home town) & on his way to becoming a millionaire by 83/84 if he wasn't already? Why the need to attend keyboard/piano lessons considering what he was doing was working anyway. Eg ITSISK, TR, AVTAK Besides DD wouldn't sound quite the same if he had changed his process/mindset. I look at my industry, I could do further study, honours, MBA, PhD, masters degree (one could say it could improve what I do or attain an in-depth understanding which wouldn't be used on a day to day basis) just good to know info. Yet my situation is that I'm happy with two decent cars in the driveway, a nice house in the suburbs & annual family holidaying. Like improve my craft, but for who? There's enough on the job training as it is with my work. I feel if people are happy with the success they've achieved/where they're currently at, honestly why bother further studying to get better at what you're already successfully and happy doing. (& Better in who's opinion anyway?), by all means do further study if you're still searching for something. In Nicks case he's got millions when compared to the rest of us anyway. Besides from a commercial perspective, it's in the music industries hands which controls his ongoing future success anyway. Eg the lack of radio play. DD (&bands in general) pay a producer to improve, expand their momentary skills or shed a different perspective, it's therefore not a necessity that every band member knows all the various chords & therefore can read & write music. My words to Nick are: Whatever ya been doing since 1981 umm please continue doing it ! That goes for the rest of DD too (& including AT should he get "the honour" to return for a 3rd time?) Again, There's no need whatsoever for you to attend music lessons since achieving his phenomenal success in the early 80s without having had music lessons in the first place !!! I absolutely love "underdogs" having extraordinary success, it suggests innovation & a certain intelligence with no pen n paper or lecture theatre required for that matter ! Right on. Again, it's not a matter of other stuff we discuss here... at least in terms of "why I like or don't like this album or song." Playing ability can vary, but the questions about whether or not he can play are pretty out there, imo. It's one thing to not want to play live or program all that stuff that goes into it. But when it comes to actually creating stuff in the studio or playing on time when you press record, I don't really see how any of that is questionable at this point. And even then, this type of music from the band isn't complex New Age or prog-rock instrumentals - or ones that would even require them. Why on earth would they suddenly start creating this music out of nowhere? And even then, who's to say that he hasn't gone out of his way to improve his playing over the years? People like Flea went to music school, sure... but think of all the bedroom musicians who learn a whole lot by just watching YouTube videos or even reading a book. Overall, I would think that by working with people like Nile or others in the band that you'd learn a lot just by experience. In fact, people do seem to learn a lot better that way in some respects. And like the Nile story about that specific chord goes, it shows a lot. Sheer talents can be dependent on a lot of things too. Time is certainly the big one (which Nick definitely has, along with the others). And maybe some sort of natural ability is another. But overall, I think the sheer amount of time around an instrument can make or break you. For example, the guitar's my main instrument and was sort of my gateway into learning a bit about music. I know enough that I'm not terrible by any means. But if you put me next to Slash or Jimmy Page though, it's not even going to be a contest on who plays better or has more knowledge. That's not to say I haven't just sat around and learned nothing over the years though. I can play rhythm stuff pretty well. I know the blues and minor pentatonic scales and can come up with "okay" lead parts playing them. And I read up on it every so often to learn new things (or any other instrument I might try my hand at, like a bass or synth). And I've practiced enough by ear where I can replicate playing styles or identify certain progressions when they come on the radio. I can even sit down and hear a relatively simple lead guitar part like, say, Dom's middle 8 part on The Man Who Stole a Leopard and play it decently okay in a few minutes time. But put me next to a heavyweight player and it's night and day. If you put me next to Slash, people are going to question my ability to play the thing (and rightfully so, lol). But what am I trying to do here? Am I playing music like his in the first place? Am I playing complex lead parts in what I'm trying to accomplish here? Are we just measuring compatency or making people fall to their knees solely on how fast I play or my knowledge of a complex blues scale? To me, it's not something you can just put in a box for every single person. In terms of sheer ability, I imagine a lot of it might come down to god-given talent. But I think a huge part of it is probably just spending literally hours and hours and hours (days even?) playing the darn thing over a period of years. Or even just being around it and music in general and picking up stuff in the process. I haven't come close to spending maybe 1/1000th of the time with a guitar that any of those great guitar players have, if that even. And I tend to think that Nick's probably on that latter end in terms of his experience around synths in general. That's why I tend to think his abilities are just fine after all this time, even if we don't really see what he does in the studio. Live performances are one thing... accomplishing your goals in the studio or private time is another.
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Post by errbt on Nov 12, 2019 18:00:37 GMT -5
Actually that song is one of the absolute FIRST Duran Duran songs. It was written and performed live in '78 and/or '79 by the first incarnation of the band (Stephen Duffy, Nigel Taylor, and Nick Rhodes). It was just never recorded until Stephen and Nick decided to do so for 2002's The Devils' Dark Circles album. EDIT: Silly me, I guess the lyrics of Barbarella's reveal that they, at least (the music itself still might have been written in '78), were written after the fact and inspired by the original Duran lineup's music and experiences. Other songs on the album like Signals In Smoke, however, are confirmed to have been original old Duran songs by Stephen & Nick themselves:
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Post by Max Zorin on Nov 13, 2019 15:42:21 GMT -5
For me, the whole problem is sooo last century, like "is Kasimir Malevich a great painter or not?" Of course, he's a great painter and I like him much, much more than Renaissance classics. Since XIX century art has become independent of craftsmanship and is more closely associated with the concept of creativity, originality, individualism and innovation.
I wonder if the question "can Nick play the piano" interests more American DD fans? It seems to me that we in Europe do not attach importance to playing skills, considering the popularity of the specific artists - from Depeche Mode to Modern Talking.
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