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Post by taylorsmom on Jan 28, 2007 16:06:56 GMT -5
Only my oldest sister got baptized, but as far as I know it is a Atheist..
I have never been baptized and also a Atheist, but did do the church thing, Sunday school etc.. And found out it wasn't for me..
But I am the Godmother to my friend's second girl.. and proud of it too.. She was Christianed into the Ukranian Church one year ago.. I was so honoured to be asked and a proud moment in my life..
I can understand your confusion of the all thing..
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pix1070
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Post by pix1070 on Jan 28, 2007 17:37:36 GMT -5
I teach 4th grade PSR & our lesson today was the 4 part of the mass, including Liturgy of the Euchrist . . . including the consecreations for bread & wine. Ummmm "for many"? Does that mean that Jesus was excluding people when he died on the cross?  Carina, like you, I was born & raised Catholic. To be honest, I question a lot about the faith now. |
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afan
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Post by afan on Jan 28, 2007 18:08:43 GMT -5
I went to church on Saturday and did not really hear a difference in that part of the mass. I'll listen closer next week. The priest did not say anything about the change. I don't think that it means Jesus is excluding anyone. It's what iami said in her first post. It's more that Jesus came for everyone's salvation but not everyone accepts Him.
ivyagogo, Jesus was Jewish and practiced the Jewish faith and lifestyle. He stated that He would never forsake His people. He meant the Jewish too. I have a few friends who are Jewish and Judism and Catholicism have many of the same beliefs and traditions.
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Post by enviedlady11 on Jan 28, 2007 18:38:20 GMT -5
I understand the frustration, but maybe this will calm it a bit. I think it's a misunderstanding...
The ancient liturgy always said "for many" -- it was changed in the 60's for Vatican II to "for all". They basically went back to the pre-Vatican II reading of the liturgy. It's a direct quote from Scripture -- Jesus said "This is My Blood of the covenant which is poured out for you and for many for the forgiveness of sins." (NASB)
The blood of the Cross was shed for all, but not all who hear the Gospel are saved. Jesus died for all sins, but not everyone accepts his sacrifice. The reading "for many" instead of "for all" is more a statement that not all are saved and not all can come to the Table.
The Eucharist was never meant to be universal -- it is only for baptized believers. In the ancient church, the catechumens (those who were learning to be Christians) had to leave the church gathering before the Eucharist. They weren't allowed to remain until after they were confirmed and baptized after 3 years of study.
There is a great book we had to read at church called 'From Darkness to Light' about the ancient church (I'm Anglican Catholic). Fascinating stuff.
As for someone being Jewish, they are under the Old Covenant, God's covenant with His chosen people.
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tinyd89
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Post by tinyd89 on Jan 28, 2007 18:55:52 GMT -5
@ iami - I'm Catholic & I'm with you on the confessional visit being out of the question. Hvaing gone to Catholic grade school & high school, I had many confessional visits forced upon me so I now refrain. I feel that if they are teaching me that God knows all & forgives you if you are sorry, then why involve a "middle man". Carina - I'll have to listen for that change. I haven't noticed it the past couple of weeks, but I did miss today. Of course, I also have an issue with the priest that informed me on the day of my daughter's baptism that the church does not recognize my marriage as I was not married in a Catholic church. I'm just racking up the One Way Ticket to Hell points aren't I! |
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Post by Carina on Jan 28, 2007 22:18:52 GMT -5
@ enviedlady and iami...I understand the language of the change, but the change, at this time, under this Pope is MORE than just a "more accurate" translation from the Latin...I believe it is much, much more than that...the Church has always been a sociopolitical entity, also, and I don't believe this change was done to JUST be true to the Gospel. Based on the priestly "f___ you" I heard today, I'm not the only one who feels this way and the head shaking isn't just among the laity.
@pixie...I'm actually a convert...went through RCIA in 1997.
@tiny...I almost didn't go through with my conversion because a priest had a little "talk" with me during a catechumen reflection time on the Wednesday before the Triduum concerning the absolute need for my husband to pursue an annulment from his previous marriage and for my civil marriage to be blessed within the Catholic Church in order for it to be "complete." Regardless of the truth to doctrine, it wasn't the time nor the place to talk to me about that detail. This was *my* conversion, for me, between God and me, and the whole talk about my marriage was out of line at that time. The day of your daughter's baptism was also a case of crappy, inconsiderate timing. It was your daughter's day, her welcoming into the church, and he should have kept his mouth shut.
My husband got an annulment in 2000, and we had a full Wedding Mass in 2003. The same priest who talked with me before my conversion also tried to talk me out of having a full Wedding Mass because it "just isn't done." He wanted a regular Sunday Mass "blessing" where we stand up, get noticed, then sit down.
I then talked to my pastor (the one I absolutely adored that I mentioned above), and he, without hesitation, said we absolutely could celebrate a full, private Wedding Mass, and he was even the congregant.
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pix1070
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Post by pix1070 on Jan 28, 2007 22:27:28 GMT -5
I no longer go to confession either . . . I feel that whatever my sins are I will take up with God directly thru prayer . . . I don't need a "middle man" . . . my sons have yet to make this sacrament as well . . .
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Post by Carina on Jan 28, 2007 22:33:47 GMT -5
I, on the other hand  , LOVE the one-on-one Reconciliations. I usually make a special appointment with one particular priest when my heart is especially heavy, and the Reconciliation is done in his office. We usually go waaaaay off-topic, and a couple times he's asked, "Is your confession complete? If so, let's do the absolution, then we can continue the conversation."  |
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pattylondon
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Post by pattylondon on Jan 28, 2007 23:05:23 GMT -5
I apolgize myself for not reading all the posts in this thread, but, if we follow the 10 commandments, I swear to you, life will be better for all. Not for many. I agree on that Carina.
But you also have to understand that many ara called and very few get to know they have to answer, and less people speak they herts about it. I believe in God, and I can tell you this days I am more close to Him than any other time of my life, but I accepted Him.
And I want to have a long chat about this with you, its interesting, but right now I am just so concentrated in saving me and my son... after that I can deal with the world, but one by one at time... lol
If you try to save the world is kinda complicated, is less painful when you work to save the ones you love, if you succed, the all is great!
*hugs*
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pix1070
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Post by pix1070 on Jan 29, 2007 1:40:21 GMT -5
@ Carina . . . perhaps I should consider going back to reconciliation . . . I'm afraid Fr. would pass out though . . . hahahahahaha . . .
P.S. Sorry . . . I didn't know you were a convert . . . I assumed & I shouldn't have . . . you know what they say . . .
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, LOVE the one-on-one Reconciliations. I usually make a special appointment with one particular priest when my heart is especially heavy, and the Reconciliation is done in his office. We usually go waaaaay off-topic, and a couple times he's asked, "Is your confession complete? If so, let's do the absolution, then we can continue the conversation." 
