|
Post by thetange on Aug 5, 2010 19:42:22 GMT -5
GEORGE LUCAS HAS RUINED STAR WARS!!! Oh, wait, wrong board! Or, alternatively, PETER JACKSON HAS RUINED THE LORD OF THE RINGS!!! I don't know which was more volatile, the SW boards during the prequel years or the LotR boards during the movie years. The drama was incredible! Of couse, now Jackson's trying to get The Hobbit going, but I don't think people are as passionate about that as they were with the LotR films. They better hurry, though, Ian McKellen ain't getting any younger... I'm a comic book/superhero/sci-fi nerd, but I never could get into Lord of the Rings. I saw the first movie and was bored out of my mind and couldn't understand so much drama over a ring. Everybody I know loves those movies (and the books), so I completely chalk it up as my own failing.....I just don't get it.
|
|
|
Post by roxy on Aug 5, 2010 19:53:57 GMT -5
Z
|
|
Droid
PAPER GOD
Whoooooosh!
[F4:1194019632]
Posts: 2,519
|
Post by Droid on Aug 5, 2010 21:50:01 GMT -5
And yes, George Lucas has ruined Star Wars. I still can't break the news to my inner 7 year old that Darth Vadar is some wussy, entitlement minded brat who screams "it isn't fair!". That's the scary, creepy bad guy from my childhood? I know this is way off topic, but I had to jump in on this. I completely agree that the prequals pretty much ruined the spooky enigma that used to make Darth Vader so great (and that's not the only thing wrong with those movies!). But I suppose if you really think about it, what kind of adult would a whiny, self-centered brat with an obvious hatred toward the Jedi grow up into? To become a powerful bad guy isn't that much of a stretch. Maybe not a cool bad guy like Vader, but certainly something of the evil variety.
|
|
|
Post by thetange on Aug 5, 2010 23:53:28 GMT -5
And yes, George Lucas has ruined Star Wars. I still can't break the news to my inner 7 year old that Darth Vadar is some wussy, entitlement minded brat who screams "it isn't fair!". That's the scary, creepy bad guy from my childhood? I know this is way off topic, but I had to jump in on this. I completely agree that the prequals pretty much ruined the spooky enigma that used to make Darth Vader so great (and that's not the only thing wrong with those movies!). But I suppose if you really think about it, what kind of adult would a whiny, self-centered brat with an obvious hatred toward the Jedi grow up into? To become a powerful bad guy isn't that much of a stretch. Maybe not a cool bad guy like Vader, but certainly something of the evil variety. Heya Droid! True! I remember seeing Star Wars when I was 7 with my grandpa and Vader being that imposing figure.....and then as an adult to see the prequel versions and think - "are you serious? I could kick his ---"........I dunno, it was just disappointing. If they'd gotten a different actor who could've gotten it across, then yeah I think you're absolutely right that a whiney brat could've made for a deep, screwed up in the head, scary Vadar. I can't remember the guys name but he had no chemestry with Natale Portman (hope she and Thor have more chemestry!). And I couldn't believe character-wise that she would have the slightest interest in him.....it made no sense. Most folks hated Jar Jar, but I kinda liked the first prequel. Then in the 2nd prequel (I think) with ninja yoda? Lol. The theater was packed with some serious Star Wars fans - and I'm a nerd on the Marvel movies and try to be respectful/quiet, etc. I just remember Ninja Yoda and not being able to stop laughing, which got my friends with me laughing too, and then the people around us. And then the Gladiator rip off? I was just waiting for C3P0 to say, "are you not entertained?". The original Star Wars movies just had a magic and a lot of that probably had to do with the chemestry of the actors. The prequels didn't have that same chemestry.
|
|
|
Post by thetange on Aug 5, 2010 23:56:38 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by sueb1863 on Aug 6, 2010 5:27:11 GMT -5
OT: Hayden Chrstiansen (sp?) played Anakin Skywalker. He's actually a very good actor, but the direction and material he was given in the prequels squashed any potential he had in the role. I read somewhere that it really must have taken some effort by Lucas to get a BAD performance out of Liam Neeson, and I think that's true. I just wish they'd stuck with the original ideas suggested in the first 1977 SW movie - Darth Vader and Anakin Skywalker were two different people, and Darth killed Anakin after betraying him. A lot less convoluted and just as dramatic, I think. Maybe Andy can chime in here if he feels like it...
|
|
|
Post by Blank on Aug 6, 2010 5:43:37 GMT -5
jar jar binks and most of the alien creatures (jabba the hut, chewbacca and the likes) are ludicrous. totally unlikely and fake. give me c3po and r2d2 anytime. even yoda is silly. ;D
|
|
errbt
PAPER GOD
"untalented guitarist"
Posts: 1,726
|
Post by errbt on Aug 6, 2010 11:08:32 GMT -5
OT: Hayden Chrstiansen (sp?) played Anakin Skywalker. He's actually a very good actor, but the direction and material he was given in the prequels squashed any potential he had in the role. I read somewhere that it really must have taken some effort by Lucas to get a BAD performance out of Liam Neeson, and I think that's true. I just wish they'd stuck with the original ideas suggested in the first 1977 SW movie - Darth Vader and Anakin Skywalker were two different people, and Darth killed Anakin after betraying him. A lot less convoluted and just as dramatic, I think. Maybe Andy can chime in here if he feels like it... Being old school as he is, I bet Andy would agree that the original trilogy blows away the prequels (although Ep. III was nearly great, except for two little sound bites: "It's because I love you too much"..."No, it's becuase I love YOU to much" and "NOOOOOOOoooooooooo!")! As for Lucas' inability to direct actors, just look at how he was able to turn even Sam Jackson into cardboard. This is nothing new, either...by far the best acting in the entire series occured in The Empire Strikes Back, which was of course NOT directed by Lucas, but by Irvin Kershner, and Lucas really did step back and give him free reign. Every other movie was either directed by Lucas or "ghost-directed" in the case of Return of the Jedi, where by all accounts Richard Marquand was nothing but Lucas' puppet. That said, I give Lucas credit for realizing how good Kershner was because he asked him to do Jedi as well, but Kersh turned it down (and years later said he regretted it as he could have done it a hell of a lot better)! Even the original Star Wars had that famous Lucas stiffness in the acting and dialogue, but it managed to overcome it with innocence, innovation, and freshness because it was so new and different (while also somehow being familiar and smartly derivative). The fact is, Lucas has never been good with actors...he basically admits this. I think he'd honestly enjoy only working with CG artificial humans! Then he gets total manipulative control...
|
|
Droid
PAPER GOD
Whoooooosh!
[F4:1194019632]
Posts: 2,519
|
Post by Droid on Aug 6, 2010 14:58:34 GMT -5
The original Star Wars movies just had a magic and a lot of that probably had to do with the chemestry of the actors. The prequels didn't have that same chemestry. Absolutely. I think that's the prequals' biggest downfall. So many decent actors, and no chemistry between them, nada. The stories were incredibly convoluted as well. One of my absolute favorite things about the original trilogy was the obvious sexual tension between Han Solo and Leia early on. The way they bickered, you just knew they'd develope feelings for each other eventually. Luke's maturity throughout the trilogy was done fairly well too. As for the secondary alien characters, I happen to really like Chewbacca, Jabba the Hutt, and even the Ewoks. But what seperates them from the cheesieness of the others (not counting the droids) was the fact that they didn't speak "Galactic Basic". For the Wookies and Ewoks, it made them more interesting to not know exactly what they were saying. Solo's reactions to Chewy were the only real indications of Chewy's personality. But it showed Chewy's loyalty and intelligence without making him sound silly. (I also love the fact that Chewy's character was based off of Lucas's dog, I believe.) The Ewoks, though childish, where still kind of cute and fun, until they learned GB. Some Ewok spin-off movie did that and completely ruined them for me. Even though Jabba the Hutt was subtitled, I still like the fact that he didn't speak in GB. The way he spoke was much more menacing. I got the impression he's basically meant to be a fearsome Mob boss-type character, and I think they pulled that off pretty well. I certainly wouldn't want to run into him in a dark alley. Jar-Jar and most of the other aliens in the prequals however, just came off as ridiculous and a failed attempt at humor to me. Nothing particularly endearing about them at all. The droids are cool, but what they have is the buddy-thing going on. I like R2-D2 for the same reasons I like Chewbacca, and I think C3-P0 was a perfect "straight man" to R2's impulsive personality.
|
|
errbt
PAPER GOD
"untalented guitarist"
Posts: 1,726
|
Post by errbt on Aug 6, 2010 15:18:16 GMT -5
The original Star Wars movies just had a magic and a lot of that probably had to do with the chemestry of the actors. The prequels didn't have that same chemestry. Absolutely. I think that's the prequals' biggest downfall. So many decent actors, and no chemistry between them, nada. The stories were incredibly convoluted as well. One of my absolute favorite things about the original trilogy was the obvious sexual tension between Han Solo and Leia early on. The way they bickered, you just knew they'd develope feelings for each other eventually. Luke's maturity throughout the trilogy was done fairly well too. As for the secondary alien characters, I happen to really like Chewbacca, Jabba the Hutt, and even the Ewoks. But what seperates them from the cheesieness of the others (not counting the droids) was the fact that they didn't speak "Galactic Basic". For the Wookies and Ewoks, it made them more interesting to not know exactly what they were saing. Solo's reactions to Chewy were the only real indications of Chewy's personality. But it showed Chewy's loyalty and intelligence without making him sound silly. (I also love the fact that Chewy's character was based off of Lucas's dog, I believe.) The Ewoks, though childish, where still kind of cute and fun, until they learned GB. Some Ewok spin-off movie did that and completely ruined them for me. Even though Jabba the Hutt was subtitled, I still like the fact that he didn't speak in GB. The way he spoke was much more menacing. I got the impression he's basically meant to be a fearsome Mob boss-type character, and I think they pulled that off pretty well. I certainly wouldn't want to run into him in a dark alley. Jar-Jar and most of the other aliens in the prequals however, just came off as ridiculous and a failed attempt at humor to me. Nothing particularly endearing about them at all. The droids are cool, but what they have is the buddy-thing going on. I like R2-D2 for the same reasons I like Chewbacca, and I think C3-P0 was a perfect "straight man" to R2's impulsive personality. Great point about the language, Droid...I had never thought of that. Ironic...better acting by characters who don't speak english/"basic" than prequel ones who do. One other huge difference: Chewie, Yoda, etc. were all REAL (at least in the physically present in the filing of the scene sense), as opposed to having to act to an empty space where some abstract being is going to be inserted months later. Liam Neeson, for one, was driven nuts by this, and didn't hide it. It's a big part of why he didn't take part in II and III, even in voice (for his disembodied voice in Ep. II, they just recycled his "Anakin!" from the Darth Maul Tatooine fight scene). So much CG still looks like CG to me, though LOTR really upped the anti in that regard (just another case of a better filmmaker taking Lucas' undeniable technical advances and kicking his ass at his own game)! I will admit, though, that CG Yoda from Ep. II and III looked way better (very close to the ESB Yoda they modelled it after) than that brutal 'Abe Vigoda' Ep. I puppet! ps You're spot-on about Lucas' dog! His huge Alaskan Malamute "Indiana" was directly inspired 2 of the most recognizeable film characters ever - Chewbacca and Indiana Jones!
|
|