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Post by derekduran on Sept 1, 2017 16:18:42 GMT -5
Love the song, always been a favourite. But it's always been hard for Simon to sing live, which I suspect is one of the reasons why it doesn't get played much
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Post by coolbarn on Sept 1, 2017 17:53:45 GMT -5
I always thought the band totally overrated Skin Trade and that it was a terrible choice for a single. Still do to this day. But I will give it this - it sounds a lot better live than on the album, and going back over old concert footage is definitely one song I always have a lot of fun listening to. Whether it would sound as good today without a real brass/woodwind section to play it is unlikely, but I'd still be happy to hear it for something a bit different
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Post by aftertherain on Sept 1, 2017 20:57:57 GMT -5
ST & WBs are both different songs as are their actual song topics
WBs is more basic sounding if you like with a in ya face Sex Pistols type chant
ST IMO is more of a surreal while intellectual song, I imagine as a musician also way more satisfying to play rather than the easier to play WBs
I personally agree with Johny Taylor
Which single sold more really can't be considered independently in this equation considering WBs was written by the 5 and ST written by the 3 Obviously these days they're gonna play the bigger hit, it makes 'money' sense but doesn't necessarily suggest one song is better but more familiar.
Many fans opinions therefore were biased already, (eg don't like DD anymore coz they're not a 5 piece) let's face it how many turned away from DD in 86/87? There were far too many unfortunately. In fact the only place they were selling out stadiums at the time was Italy.
The whole point of notorious LP was to tell the world we are a mature band, when one either listens to side A or B carefully this is obvious. So why go back and tread on old ground, DD never did then and thankfully still aren't today.
I sympathise with our band at the that particular time of their career where like a wounded animal produced an LP with such quality. But then we all 'love' differently hey.
Again I agree with JT & SLB who absolutely loves his vocal on it ST
In my previous post in this thread, I shared how when ST came out I wasn't 13 any more and therefore my music was growing with me.
It's hard to explain but nevertheless it's a homoginised thru and thru relationship which I attain with DD and after 30 something years I can't deny its a "growth" thing which has undoubtedly shaped my life as it is today....................in way more ways than one !
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Post by aftertherain on Sept 2, 2017 6:08:44 GMT -5
I sympathise with our band at the that particular time of their career where like a wounded animal produced an LP with such quality. Except the wounded animal's first single Notorious stormed up the charts quite fast and peaked at #2. And was Notorious really a mature track? The success of that first single made DD look like they still had staying power at the time, and could easily chart with the right type of music. Whatever they thought they packed into Skin Trade...just didn't appeal as much. It didn't to me...I found myself playing Vertigo, or Hold Me or American Science much, much more. Yeah we could get real umm DD philosophical here. When we look at the previous DD studio LP release (S&TRT) Union of the snake got to three, but New Moon disappointed DD in a big way with its chart position compared to Union Of The Snake including Is There something I should know, however The Reflex (the 3rd release) got to number one on both sides of the Atlantic & down under as we all know. Let's ask ourselves what the 3rd single Meet El Presidente (also produced by Nile & funkier perhaps than both the Notorious & The Reflex singles) did on the charts and that's exactly what I base my opinion on. It's based on experience. IMO Our DD lost heaps of momentum not because they released Skin Trade but as mentioned in my previous post, when they went from 5 to 3 and not coz Skin Trade followed Notorious. Obviously ly the first single after a hiatus will chart well, but wheather the momentum lasts depends on the masses supporting and not die hard fan base who have been known to assist in a high charting song and then quick exit from the charts. Like I mentioned they were down sizing concert venues and never bothered touring down under at the time, can we blame that on that one single release being skin trade too? Fans that were pissed off felt "Get Andy & Roger BACK, coz this ain't DD anymore" I never felt that way and I'm sure many on this board who truly love DD never felt this way, but the masses who let's face it, aren't on this board, I believe did. IMO an album where every song attains a slick polished precise sound, (funky or not) & where much of it is mid tempo sounding, especially when just about every song features a slick three piece established horn section in addition (the best the world had to offer at the time) is way more mature sounding in its LP DNA than one that doesn't. Eg its predecessor LP S&TRT. That maturity which DD where chasing I guess is also the exact reason why, for the first time in DDs career (up until that time) neither Planet Earth, Girls On Film, Rio & New Moon On Monday were played on the "strange behaviour tour". DD were telling us something, we're now a three piece, this is how we wanna sound. Can we imagine a DD show these days without Planet Earth, GOF or Rio? I preferred the complexity of trax such as Vertigo, American Science, Skin Trade, So Misled and even Matter Of Feeling rather than the simplicity or obvious sounding Notorious, Meet El Presidente and Hold Me But we're all different hey
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Post by coolbarn on Sept 2, 2017 7:45:48 GMT -5
The band themselves admitted surprise after how poorly Skin Trade performed on the charts - they were expecting it to go better than Notorious and confirm that Duran Duran were back. Sadly it did a lot worse and was the beginning of the end of their mass popularity - never again would they be as popular as they had been for the past 5 years. But you know what - I don't care. I have never let chart positions influence my love for a band. If anything I admire the bands like Duran Duran who continue to persevere after failing to have a hit, rather than big-name acts who rely on their name to top the charts even though they keep releasing crap and have barely made any decent songs since the 80s. That's what I loved about the Notorious album. I remember hearing Simon say "it was the funk album Duran Duran had always wanted to make". The band could have just continued to make the same, pop-rock music and it could well have charted better than Notorious and we still would have loved it. But no - Duran Duran made the album THEY wanted to make. They didn't care that funk music wasn't the big thing at the time (regardless of how popular Prince was starting to become) and made it anyway. Compare that to these days. Whilst Paper Gods is a decent record, and the band love it, and I'm so glad the boys recorded it, it's got d**n awful current trends all over it. Numerous guest artists - check. Synth-bass - check. Hip Hop producer - check. Is it the album Duran Duran wanted to make, or the album Duran Duran think that Warner wants them to make? Personally I have more respect for them doing something like a funk record in 1986 even though they knew it would cost them fans and probably had EMI quite nervous, rather than them pandering to current trends and doing a young kids record in 2015 even though it was the only chance of Warner signing them. Like many people here I would love to hear Duran Duran record a real, raw, back to roots rock album. But while Warner write the checks I wouldn't expect it too soon. But once again - any Duran Duran music is better than no Duran Duran music, regardless of genre, or who produces it, or who plays guitar, or who makes a guest appearance. Just hope that it's sooner rather than later
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Post by Max Zorin on Sept 2, 2017 7:59:05 GMT -5
Is it the album Duran Duran wanted to make, or the album Duran Duran think that Warner wants them to make? I bet Warner didn't care about the whole album. It even doesn't sound current to me, besides of a few moments, especially "Pressure Off". It sounds like all DD albums except 'Rio'.
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Post by coolbarn on Sept 2, 2017 8:30:31 GMT -5
It even doesn't sound current to me, besides of a few moments, especially "Pressure Off". It does to me. The high hats on songs like Paper Gods and What Are The Chances can be heard on any hip-hop song from the past few years. All the fuzzy keyboards and synth-bass. All the effects. It's slickly produced alright - too slickly - just like most current music. Every Christmas my family goes driving out to see the various Christmas light displays around the surrounding suburbs. And we always make a music CD to listen to as we drive - I pick a song, then the wife, then the daughter, and then the son. And so we get about 4 picks each until the CD is full. In 2015 I only chose music from Paper Gods. And every song I picked sounded just the same musically as the songs that my kids picked. The band wanted to make a current sounding album and succeeded, so good on them. Unfortunately current sounding isn't my own personal favourite - in fact I'm not a fan. But if anybody likes current music, the production and sound of current music, and hence the production and sound of Paper Gods - then cool It sounds like all DD albums except 'Rio'. Really? Paper Gods sounds like Duran's rock/disco debut album? Or funky/brassy Notorious? Or heavy guitar-based Liberty or Pop Trash? I think it is far removed from those sorts of albums. To me it is closer to Duran's previous keyboard-heavy efforts like Red Carpet Massacre for example. Perhaps some Big Thing, or maybe even a bit of Wedding Album (sorry Skinburn!) with it's solid array of differing types of music on the album. But to say it is just like all their albums except Rio - I don't know if you'll get too many people to agree with that. Interesting opinion though - I like it
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trevgreg
PAPER GOD
[Mo0:17]
Posts: 2,613
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Post by trevgreg on Sept 2, 2017 10:45:33 GMT -5
That's what I loved about the Notorious album. I remember hearing Simon say "it was the funk album Duran Duran had always wanted to make". The band could have just continued to make the same, pop-rock music and it could well have charted better than Notorious and we still would have loved it. But no - Duran Duran made the album THEY wanted to make. They didn't care that funk music wasn't the big thing at the time (regardless of how popular Prince was starting to become) and made it anyway. Compare that to these days. Whilst Paper Gods is a decent record, and the band love it, and I'm so glad the boys recorded it, it's got d**n awful current trends all over it. Numerous guest artists - check. Synth-bass - check. Hip Hop producer - check. Is it the album Duran Duran wanted to make, or the album Duran Duran think that Warner wants them to make?Personally I have more respect for them doing something like a funk record in 1986 even though they knew it would cost them fans and probably had EMI quite nervous, rather than them pandering to current trends and doing a young kids record in 2015 even though it was the only chance of Warner signing them. Like many people here I would love to hear Duran Duran record a real, raw, back to roots rock album. But while Warner write the checks I wouldn't expect it too soon. I see this particular argument on U2 forums all the time. There's a belief that somehow these bands are not recording the songs they want to make as opposed to ones that would come a bit more naturally to them. For Duran, the only time this ever really appeared to happen for sure was during some of the RCM sessions, where it literally was other people recording stuff and saying "Let's put Simon's vocal here", or having the actual band not contribute as much. The band has confirmed as much in interviews, so that's not something they'd necessarily disagree with. Otherwise, and not singling you out here CoolBarn and accusing this, but I always took that argument to some extent as saying "I wish they'd record the music I want them to make." Unless you're outsourcing your material to other people to write for you, I can't really see where it's music they're not wanting to make for themselves. If it wasn't, then it'd never be seeing the light of day (hence the songs we hear about but haven't heard yet). There's never really going to be a consensus on these things or the way the band should "sound" anyway, hence the beauty (and acromony, lol) of places like these anyway. You think Notorious was a great funk record while others hated them for going in that direction. Maybe Big Thing was viewed as an album of them trying to jump on trends in music popular at the time? Some thought Paper Gods had better songwriting than even AYNIN, while others seemed to sour a bit on the instrumentation. On top of that, like I said in that other thread before, writing a song is hard enough on its own. I can only imagine what it'd be like if I was in my 50's and still trying to do it every few years after 10+ albums. That's a huge accomplishment in its own right. Each time it's going to involve a million little decisions and you can't just put everything in a box and decide you're going to go this way or bust. If the extra tracks on PG are anything to go by, it seems like they were writing some decent songs, but nothing that really rose to the ranks of "Hey! Yeah!!!" dynamics or hooks, and kept recording and playing around with things. It happens. And as a bonus, we got even more new music out of it. Even if we got them into a room where the Rum Runner used to be located, with just the instruments they had in 1980, and said "Write an album," it's not going to happen like that. Or the result is not going to be that great. They're not going to recreate albums or particular sounds from the past like that nor do I expect them to try it anyway. At one of the book signings that I went to, John even said that there was a stretch in the 90's where he intentionally didn't play bass lines like he did early in his career, due to either being bored with it or wanting to expand how he played a bit more. And since they seem to be big music fans in general, I don't expect them to just sit and listen to nothing but Japan and Bryan Ferry these days to be inspired. Heck, if we each put our song lists off iTunes or Spotify or whatever, are we going to have nothing but songs with "real" instruments and nothing resembling stuff you might hear off Big Thing, RCM or Paper Gods? I doubt it, personally. We can base opinions off how they write and record by what they release and what they say in interviews, but Duran was never a niche underground group anyway, nor aimed to be one. The fact that they're still inspired enough to create something is pretty good after all these years. I'm not going to like everything single thing they release from hear on out, just like I didn't for their previous releases. At this point, getting something out of each album seems to be alright with me at minimum, and so far they've been good at that.
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Post by Max Zorin on Sept 2, 2017 10:50:58 GMT -5
It does to me. The high hats on songs like Paper Gods and What Are The Chances can be heard on any hip-hop song from the past few years. All the fuzzy keyboards and synth-bass. All the effects. It's slickly produced alright - too slickly - just like most current music. And besides high hats it mostly sounds like Chris DeBurgh’s "Lady in Red", not like Ed Sheehan' song. PG is like cousin of "Wild Boys", YKMWS have choirs straight from DM's "Music For the Masses", both songs could be on "Big Thing" album, not on Taylor Swift album. I'm afraid that for people in their forties "current" means "last 15 years" A few songs have that kind of melancholy I heard only on debiut (and "Big Thing"). After 1988 that kind of brassy sound was never fashionable again. Anyway, "Butterfly Girl" sounds soo mid-80s. PG had the same assumptions: "let's make a set of completely different songs", "let's make a incoherent, diverse album". Agreed! There are many references to the past (DD & others) with some modern elements. But, well, I cannot hear any similarities to "Rio".
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Post by humanracer on Sept 2, 2017 13:43:52 GMT -5
Skin Trade was a first for Duran Duran in that it offered some social commentary. Their cleverest song at that point.
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