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Post by coolbarn on Sept 2, 2017 19:21:03 GMT -5
I see this particular argument on U2 forums all the time. There's a belief that somehow these bands are not recording the songs they want to make as opposed to ones that would come a bit more naturally to them. I'm not arguing that point - merely asking the question. The band have always had label support, then they release an album independently, and then they go shopping for major label support once more. Only a very naive person is going to believe that the band are not going to be producing music that they think would be attractive to a big label. Otherwise what's the point of shopping it around in the first place? Otherwise, and not singling you out here CoolBarn and accusing this, but I always took that argument to some extent as saying "I wish they'd record the music I want them to make." Unless you're outsourcing your material to other people to write for you, I can't really see where it's music they're not wanting to make for themselves. If it wasn't, then it'd never be seeing the light of day (hence the songs we hear about but haven't heard yet). Well you did quote me, so you are singling me out. I have never said, or believed, the band should make music that "I want them to make". I quite simply have said that I don't really like much of current music and production techniques. Why should that change if Duran Duran decide to incorporate them? Does it magically become okay, should I have an epiphany and actually love it? No sorry, I'm not a sheep who believes that everything Duran Duran decides to try is amazing. If anything I am saying the complete opposite - I am saying they are making the wrong sort of music. It's not the music I want them to make - it is the sort of music I DON'T want them to make. Old guys trying to play young is dumb. I don't like Duran trying to make young, current, hip music that is so far beneath them it's not funny. Leave that shit to the young acts that can get away with it. I'll be happy with whatever direction Duran Duran decides to go in. Just don't let it involve young acts or young guest stars in the quest for eternal youth or teen appeal. That ship sailed decades ago. The young acts should be asking Duran Duran for help - not the other way around. Having said that I like half the songs on Paper Gods, with a few being as good as anything Duran Duran have ever done. So the band didn't get it all wrong!
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Post by humanracer on Sept 3, 2017 13:20:49 GMT -5
Big Thing was an example of the band trying to emulate current sounds. Don't forget New Wave was more out of fashion in 1988 than it is currently. The band were trying to sound like US House Music acts. The Wedding Album as DDs answer to current music trends:
The 80s had ended and a lot of people wanted to lock the door, and close Duran Duran in that decade too, I think. A funny thing happens when a decade changes. In reality, not much happens on that DAY, but people think, ‘right, now things have changed.’ Some how at the end of the 80s, music changed considerably. We had grunge, techno and rave culture, which left us in a place where we felt we had to make ourselves relevant to the times. We weren’t about to make a Grunge or Techno album, but we had our songwriting. We very much went back to basics. We went to the Studio and wrote and wrote and wrote, day after day. And some days, we had some interesting ideas, and other days, we didn’t. “Drowning Man” came from those sessions – that was John’s idea to make it dance music based. Too Much Information, which i think is a great lyric from Simon was about what was happening in the world and how we are all bombarded with “stuff” and keep in mind, this was before the Internet.
I would rather DD experiment a bit rather than make something that sounds like a carbon copy of the 80s because it almost always falls flat and feels like a pale imitation. Rehashes are never good. Look at The Force Awakens. It's hard to see that as anything other than a rehash of an iconic 70s film.
AYNIN was great but it also sounded modern.
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Post by humanracer on Sept 3, 2017 18:30:53 GMT -5
Fans that were pissed off felt "Get Andy & Roger BACK, coz this ain't DD anymore" One might have felt at the time that Duran Duran was growing up, so were the fans, just not together and the latter were drifting away. After a #39 Skin Trade, came the #70 Meet El Presidente which when combined spelt catastrophe on the charts. But DD stormed back about 18 months later with IDWYL....big singles hit, huge dance hit...this was the type of track I loved on my very first listen... Does anyone want to say IDWYL sucks compared to Skin Trade? Some might argue Skin Trade was artistic and creative in its own way, but it's something I'd play if I was watching paint dry. It was a hit in the US as House & dance were big at the time but it didn't make the top 10 in the UK. It's OK. Skin trade is more interesting. I like the slower side of Big Thing.
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Post by Xxxxxx on Sept 3, 2017 18:41:51 GMT -5
For reasons that I can't quite put my finger on I've always thought of Skin Trade and All She Wants is as "cousins". They both have a mid-tempo sultry quality that I find very appealing.
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Post by americanscientist on Sept 3, 2017 20:55:35 GMT -5
We can debate the artistic merits of Skin Trade forever. The fact remains that it was a weak single and actually ended their incredible chart run in the U.K. (6 straight years of Top 20 singles, from Girls on Film through Notorious) and in the US (previous 7 singles went Top 10).
Yes, they fought back with IDWYL and ASWI, but Skin Trade was the first sign of stormy weather for them. Had DD released Hold Me as the second single, they might have had smoother sailing.
I still put the Notorious album in the Top 3 of their catalogue, right behind Rio and their debut. In fact, Notorious and Big Thing are in my top 5.
DD simply do not get enough credit for crafting such progressive, nuanced pop albums after losing two key members and facing declining popularity. Others bands would have wilted and died under similar circumstances.
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Post by coolbarn on Sept 3, 2017 20:55:42 GMT -5
Does anyone want to say IDWYL sucks compared to Skin Trade? I for one don't. I Don't Want Your Love was very catchy and I regard it as a very strong Duran Duran single. One of my personal favourites actually. Depends on my mood I guess - they are both very different songs. Skin Trade is mature, and a real grower, and there are days in my car when I put it on repeat and really get into the music. But I Don't Want Your Love is catchy and fun - and more enjoyable as a result. It's a good contest, but clear winner by knockout - I Don't Want Your Love. Had DD released Hold Me as the second single, they might have had smoother sailing. Totally agree - Hold Me would have gone gangbusters at the time. I could have seen that going to number one considering its classic Duran sound and how decently the title track fared. And if the band were deadset determined to release Skin Trade then they could have consolidated on that momentum and released it as number three (although they still would have confused the hell out of fans who weren't expecting that sort of music from Duran Duran). Meet El Presidente is okay, but did not deserve getting a run. I would have gone with Hold Me, Notorious, and American Science in that order. Easy in hindsight I guess. But having said that I personally remember being devastated back in the day when I heard Skin Trade was going to be the next single. I couldn't understand why back then, and over 30 years later I still can't understand. Maybe in another 30 years the answer will hit me DD simply do not get enough credit for crafting such progressive, nuanced pop albums after losing two key members and facing declining popularity. Others bands would have wilted and died under similar circumstances. What an amazing quote that is! So true, very nicely done
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blaahh
PAPER GOD
Still breathing
Posts: 2,583
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Post by blaahh on Sept 4, 2017 5:23:39 GMT -5
Hold Me wouldnt have charted any higher than Skin Trade, Duran had lost the fan base. Remember Notorious spent one week in the uk top 50 album chart the month before, there wasnt any coming back from that. A Matter of Feeling was their only real chance, but they were ploughing a new furrow then..
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Post by aftertherain on Sept 4, 2017 6:52:13 GMT -5
Hold Me wouldnt have charted any higher than Skin Trade, Duran had lost the fan base. Remember Notorious spent one week in the uk top 50 album chart the month before, there wasnt any coming back from that. A Matter of Feeling was their only real chance, but they were ploughing a new furrow then.. Thays exactly what I've been trying to say all along and only some can relate too. When DD went from "unfortunately" a 5 to a 3 piece unit they were fighting like a wounded animal, I sympathised with my/our men and they still managed to create some incredibleness in the form of the Notorious LP and the marvel that is skin trade. Well said blaahh
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Post by MrOktober on Sept 4, 2017 12:55:21 GMT -5
Does anyone want to say IDWYL sucks compared to Skin Trade? Yep. Yet another example of them trying to be "cool" and "current". This is a genuine transcript of a conversation that took place during the recording of that track.... JT: Meh, it sounds ok I suppose, but we're just not considered to be cool or relevant any more. I don't like it. I liked it better when I was on the cover of Smash Hits every week. SLB: How about if I say the word house a lot? JT: Yeah, love it. Do that. I heard a tune like that in a club last week and everyone liked it. SLB: We could even do a 12" club mix where I say house even more. JT: Yes! Do it. Nobody will be able to say that we're not cool then. I'd expect the second part of this "conversation" went like this: JT: OK, we got the first single out of the way, what will be the next one? We need to make sure there's no confusion about what it's about. Remember the second single from our last album, where you sang in that funny voice? The one that we all thought was our best ever? SLB : I think it was called "Skin Trade" JT : Right. Well, I think the problem was that it's meaning wasn't clear enough. Was it about sex or something else? We all know sex is cool, so we need a song that there can be no mistake about. SLB : How about "All She Wants Is"? JT : Yes, but it still may not be obvious enough. SLB : Well, we can put some female heavy breathing and moaning in it. JT : That sounds great! SLB: And then in the club mix we can speed up some of my wailing to make it sound like an orgasm. JT : Charlie, you're a genius! There will be no doubt then! Duran will be the coolest band on Planet Earth! Get it? SLB : Not really. Is that some sort of reference?
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Post by humanracer on Sept 4, 2017 16:02:57 GMT -5
I was too young to remember the peak of their popularity but when I first heard Decade it was clear the last four tracks were very weak compared to the preceding 10. This was before I looked at the songwriting credits and saw that two of the band members left. In the UK, most New Wave bands struggled post 1985. Those who enjoyed music in that era had grown up and moved on. Many articles in the US talked about the decline of "New Pop". In the UK at least, a-ha seamlessly stole DD's "teen pop" crown.
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