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Post by Tin on Apr 12, 2010 23:12:13 GMT -5
In YOUR opinion. In mine, I LOVE the version they "tossed out" there.
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trevgreg
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Post by trevgreg on Apr 12, 2010 23:56:41 GMT -5
I think that's understandable considering the quantity and quality of music they have released over the last decade. They took an awful lot of time to come up with 2 albums and to be honest, both have been a let down for their own reasons. Taking too much time to create an album results in an overproduced album in duran's case. The songs have more evolved to products than the songs they initially must have been. Imagine them recording and releasing an album in let's say, 2 months time. Off course they would need good songs to record.(And that's where the main problems is in my opinion). If they want to take a different route then maybe that's the way to go. A new Duran album. But a raw one, a fresh one. Not an overpolished one. Didn't they want to go back to their roots ? Well, their debut album was recorded in december '80 and a single was in the charts by feb '81. The album was in the shops a few months later. Just wondering... how are we defining "overproduction" here? Are we talking about length of time going over the songs, something in terms of outside help, or just the amount of time tweaking the instruments and things like that? Because if we're talking about pure length here in terms of creating these albums, it's never really been the case on why these albums took awhile to get out. The original sessions for what became Astronaut only took a little over a year before they found out the studios weren't going to sign them write away (hence the reunion tour, recording more new material, etc.) The Reportage sessions only took about eight months, and RCM was around the same ballpark aside from the sessions for Falling Down later on. When you think about it, that's not really too much time that's being repeatedly put into the songs - in the long scheme of things anyway. If people think RCM was overproduced, then I could only guess it would be because of too many people being brought in to help (i.e., people not in the band), or too many layers of instruments being put in or something. I don't really see the later there though if the songs themselves didn't take that long to create. You might think the drums aren't there or the guitar is too low, but I don't know if "overproduced" could be the right one for it. Agree? Disagree? As for thetange saying they were aiming for the 15-year-old market with that album, I never really bought that personally. If that were the case, I think DD would have made inroads to the Disney Channel or collaborated with Miley Cyrus or the Jonas Brothers, lol. The R&B/Hip-Hop Pop community is a bit more expansive than that, I'd think, if not altogether. |
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trevgreg
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Post by trevgreg on Apr 13, 2010 0:04:53 GMT -5
Are you referring to the live versions they were doing, and if so, which one? There is a few different ones. From what I can remember, the live version and demo had only 2 lyric lines that were slightly different. Otherwise, they were basically the same song. Weirdly enough, there was even a Youtube video from a few years ago that someone posted online, which was the video for the song that they played behind the band during the 2004 UK tour. And on that, they had a studio-quality version of the song playing over it that had the lyrics from the live version and not the demo one. So there might even be a "third" version out there somewhere! |
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Post by thetange on Apr 13, 2010 5:16:50 GMT -5
I think that's understandable considering the quantity and quality of music they have released over the last decade. They took an awful lot of time to come up with 2 albums and to be honest, both have been a let down for their own reasons. Taking too much time to create an album results in an overproduced album in duran's case. The songs have more evolved to products than the songs they initially must have been. Imagine them recording and releasing an album in let's say, 2 months time. Off course they would need good songs to record.(And that's where the main problems is in my opinion). If they want to take a different route then maybe that's the way to go. A new Duran album. But a raw one, a fresh one. Not an overpolished one. Didn't they want to go back to their roots ? Well, their debut album was recorded in december '80 and a single was in the charts by feb '81. The album was in the shops a few months later. Just wondering... how are we defining "overproduction" here? Are we talking about length of time going over the songs, something in terms of outside help, or just the amount of time tweaking the instruments and things like that? Because if we're talking about pure length here in terms of creating these albums, it's never really been the case on why these albums took awhile to get out. The original sessions for what became Astronaut only took a little over a year before they found out the studios weren't going to sign them write away (hence the reunion tour, recording more new material, etc.) The Reportage sessions only took about eight months, and RCM was around the same ballpark aside from the sessions for Falling Down later on. When you think about it, that's not really too much time that's being repeatedly put into the songs - in the long scheme of things anyway. If people think RCM was overproduced, then I could only guess it would be because of too many people being brought in to help (i.e., people not in the band), or too many layers of instruments being put in or something. I don't really see the later there though if the songs themselves didn't take that long to create. You might think the drums aren't there or the guitar is too low, but I don't know if "overproduced" could be the right one for it. Agree? Disagree? As for thetange saying they were aiming for the 15-year-old market with that album, I never really bought that personally. If that were the case, I think DD would have made inroads to the Disney Channel or collaborated with Miley Cyrus or the Jonas Brothers, lol. The R&B/Hip-Hop Pop community is a bit more expansive than that, I'd think, if not altogether. Lol.........where to begin................. |
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Post by Dr Of The Revolution on Apr 13, 2010 7:51:09 GMT -5
Yes, I honestly think that's the only way.
These days, only a small minority of the people wants to pay money for music and will download an album for free.
To them it doesn't matter if there's an actual CD in the shops or not.
Releasing an album in the traditional way on CD these days is actually virtually the same as making it available for free online.
In many cases it's free online before it even hits the shops !
And this number of illegal downloads will only rise. In a few years there won't be any record companies or record shops left. There is so much free music on the internet these days that an artist should be glad someone takes the time to listen to their music. Even if they did download it for free.
If i were an artist, and had a new CD in the shops I would actually be worried if I notice the album is not that popular on bitorrent sites. That actually means I couldn't even give it away for free.
Where's the upside for the band in RCM ?
Spending big bucks to get Timbaland involved and then not even bothering to release Nite-Runner as a single ?
That album has done more harm than good to their career.
They lost a big part of their identy with that album. To the point that not even the fans know what the band stands for any more.
When I listen to RCM, I hear a lot of missed opportunities.
I like The Valley. But I know the song would have been a lot better if it would have had real drums and more guitar.
Boxful : great song. But that acoustic guitar could have sounded so much better if they had hired a real sound engineer who acutally knows how to record acoustic instruments instead of a whizz kid who only knows to program beats into a computer.
The same goes for Astronaut. In most cases, I actually prefer the leaked demo's over the final product. And I'm pretty sure most of you agree.
Hoping to have a major selling CD out in the shops is so passé.
If the band still has high hopes for that it would actually mean they are passé.
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Post by Dr Of The Revolution on Apr 13, 2010 11:48:40 GMT -5
I could be wrong but I believe Justin Timberlake was indeed a Disney star.
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Post by Tin on Apr 13, 2010 12:34:34 GMT -5
He, Britney Spears and Christina Agulera were all on the Mickey Mouse club.
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Post by thetange on Apr 13, 2010 17:37:45 GMT -5
Just wondering... how are we defining "overproduction" here? Good luck getting a clear answer on that, I've asked it dozens of times in the past only to find the term is tossed around without any regard to meaning. Its just meant to be a negative connotation about an album. Now you are making too much sense here, and when it comes to RCM bashing, sense and logic have no place. Not to mention its a dead horse, heck, its been beaten so much its glue now. But yes, if they were after a teen audience they would have been doing colabs with Disney "stars". As for the rest? No point discussing it, the RCM bashers know for a fact its a crap album and they won't shut up until everyone else agrees with them. Randal, just because you don't understand something when it is explained to you at length doesn't mean that it was not explained well (it was......I remember the posts and contributing). You do realize that you're the fellow who, just last week, pushed forward the notion that the remasters sound bad simply because they expose the supposed problems of the better sounding prior masters. A little embarassing except, you really don't get it enough to realize how embarassing the comment should have been. And ya expect us to get you to understand overproduced? .....which is a somewhat subjective concept in the first place....but it helps if everyone is talking about the same piece of music. What some feel is overproduced in one piece of music isn't necessarily the same in another. Instead of choosing ignorance, why don't you actually seek out objective information on the term, or are you afraid that might hamper your well clung to biases? Hell, gotta do everything for some people. You've claimed this has never been `splained to you before (as it we all don't have day jobs......love your entitlement mentality bud) - and you'll claim it again.......but here's ya a start: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overproduction_(music) [if you read carefully....and it's a short read......you'll even find the term "loudness war" referenced, which has been a topic within the threads about the remasters] Just the other day you insisted that 7RT was the most overproduced Duran album. You actually made a good point about the length of time, etc. within the context of the thread. I didn't have the heart to bring up that fact that you had argued against the very notion of 7RT being over produced last year - but you did. Ignoring that for a minute, if you still don't know what overproduced means......which you're admitting above, then what was the 7RT comment about? I'm not disagreeing exactly with that.....but it illustrates that you simply wrote that the other day in order to argue with someone on a point they made because......thats what you do.....bicker when you don't know what the heck you're talking about. Either you know by now what overproduced is, or you don't. If you don't.....then seems strange that you would assert that a particular album is, or is not, overproduced - `specially after argueing the other side just last year. To repeat what I've said to you at least 3 times in the last few weeks.....when you don't know what you're talking about.....best to pipe down, or genuinely ask questions. And you're crying about a lack of "logic" on the board? Lol. You have extreme difficulty understanding anything anyone posts and you habitually take what others say out of context - it ain't just my posts......it's the vast majority of posts you respond to. I have no problem with that......I just think it's kinda funny. As for wanting everyone to agree........thats definitely not me you're talking about nor does it resemble most of the folks here. We all disagree, but most of us do it respectfully and with a sense of humor. I personally like conversation....simple as that. Whether we all agree or not makes no difference to me. You've always got an axe to grind. Someone says anything you don't like? It's "BASHING"! Lol. We all kinda get what you're doing here.......you just don't think we get it. You're not exactly here to make friends. Either way.....it's all cool. Btw.....RCM still sucks and is overproduced. <grin> Justin Timberlake.....Mickey Mouse/Disney. Britney Spears lookalike.....Mickey Mouse/Disney. Lol. Just because Duran couldn't get booked on a Disney show (they have their own label with their own artists that they promote)......ya connecting any dots yet? Or are we gonna have to draw pictures? A lot of us can indeed draw well.......might be interesting to see what we come up with to help you out. |
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Post by thetange on Apr 14, 2010 17:33:18 GMT -5
I could be wrong but I believe Justin Timberlake was indeed a Disney star. Yeah, how long ago was that? He sure isn't one now nor was he when he was involved in >1< song on RCM. Talk about grasping at straws! Lol......you're right Randal. It's just a crazy coincidence that Duran's album got rejected by the label. and that they ended up working with Timberland (de producer of the moment for hits appealing primarily to a teen/early 20s audience), then Timberlake (his bud).....also appealing to a teen/20s audience......and wait! It was a total fluke that the chick in the falling down video looked like Britney Spears with Lindsey Lohan problems. But naw.......it COULDN"T BE that they were being marketed to a teen audience. Lol. That would be......grasping at straws!!! In fact......they didn't market that album at all using Timberland or Timberlake's names......oh yeah, they did. Weird that. And how about the video that was banned.....but.....no one wanted to play it in the first place? So.....who exactly do ya think they WERE being marketed to? Professionals in their 30s and 40s? Personally, I'd like to believe they were strong armed into that whole thing. It would be really bad if they truly SUCKED that bad all on their own. Hear that SUCKING sound from that straw you're grasping onto??? Heh heh. Did ya get a chance to read up on "overproduced" yet??? Don't want ya to have to come crawling back for the 50th time claiming explanation was never provided to you before. |
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Post by Blank on Apr 15, 2010 8:47:40 GMT -5
this whole neverending argument reminds me of something i heard rhianna - of all people - had said:
i hate product placement
so there.
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