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Post by musicmaniac on Jun 10, 2010 7:52:27 GMT -5
Like I said in a previous post, it depends on the circumstances of one being depressed as to whether it needs medical intervention or not. If a series of disheartening events, unfavourable circumstances beyond control, or something unforeseen that is traumatic occurs, than it is understandable someone would be depressed.
Being depressed is just one emotion out of many that someone may experience during the course of the day. Depending on the circumstance, as long as the feeling is appropriate to the situation with that emotion dealt with in an appropriate manner, and it goes through it's cycle,..... then it is normal.
Being depressed is not an illness in itself; it's only when one is depressed when things are going relatively good that then some medical attention is appropiate. Modern society is so quick to give everything a label and drug that it's become almost fashionable for every laugh, sigh, cry, or frown to be labeled some illness.
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saint
BIG THING
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Post by saint on Jun 10, 2010 8:02:19 GMT -5
Seriously MM, you need to read up on things before you set yourself up as an authority: depression is not an emotion. Depression is a condition... in other words an illness or disorder.
The whole point of what I'VE been trying to say is that people have hoodwinked the word depression to define a low emotional state, when in actual fact it is something more specific.
'Being depressed' has become a term that is, by definition, a misappropriation. When people walk around saying "oooohhh, I'm depressed" they are misusing the term; generally out of ignorance. If someone says they're drunk on love, they're not literally drunk; they're relating the heady feeling of being in love to intoxication. What we're saying is depression has become a lazy approximation of a feeling, a description that is semantically incorrect.
This is the definition of depression, as stated by the World Health Organisation. Now, obviously, if you know better than them, feel free to get in touch with them via the United Nations.
Depression is a common mental disorder that presents with depressed mood, loss of interest or pleasure, feelings of guilt or low self-worth, disturbed sleep or appetite, low energy, and poor concentration. These problems can become chronic or recurrent and lead to substantial impairments in an individual's ability to take care of his or her everyday responsibilities. At its worst, depression can lead to suicide, a tragic fatality associated with the loss of about 850 000 lives every year.
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Post by musicmaniac on Jun 10, 2010 8:31:04 GMT -5
Seriously MM, you need to read up on things before you set yourself up as an authority: depression is not an emotion. Depression is a condition... in other words an illness or disorder. The whole point of what I'VE been trying to say is that people have hoodwinked the word depression to define a low emotional state, when in actual fact it is something more specific. 'Being depressed' has become a term that is, by definition, a misappropriation. When people walk around saying "oooohhh, I'm depressed" they are misusing the term; generally out of ignorance. If someone says they're drunk on love, they're not literally drunk; they're relating the heady feeling of being in love to intoxication. What we're saying is depression has become a lazy approximation of a feeling, a description that is semantically incorrect. This is the definition of depression, as stated by the World Health Organisation. Now, obviously, if you know better than them, feel free to get in touch with them via the United Nations. Depression is a common mental disorder that presents with depressed mood, loss of interest or pleasure, feelings of guilt or low self-worth, disturbed sleep or appetite, low energy, and poor concentration. These problems can become chronic or recurrent and lead to substantial impairments in an individual's ability to take care of his or her everyday responsibilities. At its worst, depression can lead to suicide, a tragic fatality associated with the loss of about 850 000 lives every year.I never stated I was an authority, but being human (yes I am believe it or not..lol) somewhat qualifies me as I experience a range of emotions myself. The definition you got from the WHO is what everyone experiences from time to time. As humans we all go through that in varying degrees. You can't be elated 100% of the time! That's insanely impossible... But yes, if you have the "symptoms" that you just described above for a long time, and life is going relatively good, than seek medical attention. I never said depression didn't exist, all I said was basically don't dismiss everything as an illness and run to the doctors. That's like when we sneeze or cough. Does this mean we are ill? Does this mean we run to the doctors immediately? Depression is also good business between the doctors, pharmaceuticals, and insurance companies. Like ADHD, it is wayyyyy over diagnosed. 20 years ago, you hardly heard of it. Now, every other damn kid has it. Is it coincidence or is it that now today's parent's aren't reinforcing discipline at home, letting their kids eat all sorts of rubbish, and letting alone on the computer too much. I think those drugs have become the substitute for poor parenting. Some parent's don't want to go through the 'hassle' of being good responsible parents because it means that they themselves would have to adhere to the strict disciplinary measures to be an example. Be damned if they were to exert the effort themselves. And before you accuse me of saying there is no such thing as ADHD and all parents are bad, I didn't say nor imply this. I am just meaning it is way over diagnosed because SOME parents are too lazy to exert disciplinary measures because they got no discipline themselves. I am pretty sure some vile post will follow up from disgruntled soccer moms.
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Droid
PAPER GOD
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Post by Droid on Jun 10, 2010 8:49:55 GMT -5
Well geez, if we're going to look up the dictionary definition, here: The Merriam-Webster dictionary has a number of definitions: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Main Entry: de·pres·sion Pronunciation: \di-ˈpre-shən, dç-\ Function: noun Date: 14th century 1 a : the angular distance of a celestial object below the horizon b : the size of an angle of depression 2 : an act of depressing or a state of being depressed: as a : a pressing down : lowering b (1) : a state of feeling sad : dejection (2) : a psychoneurotic or psychotic disorder marked especially by sadness, inactivity, difficulty in thinking and concentration, a significant increase or decrease in appetite and time spent sleeping, feelings of dejection and hopelessness, and sometimes suicidal tendencies c (1) : a reduction in activity, amount, quality, or force (2) : a lowering of vitality or functional activity 3 : a depressed place or part : hollow 4 : low 1b 5 : a period of low general economic activity marked especially by rising levels of unemployment ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
At least according to this definition it can mean either clinical depression OR just the state of feeling sad. It's not an all or nothing word here.
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Post by musicmaniac on Jun 10, 2010 8:52:52 GMT -5
Well geez, if we're going to look up the dictionary definition, here: The Merriam-Webster dictionary has a number of definitions: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Main Entry: de·pres·sion Pronunciation: \di-ˈpre-shən, dç-\ Function: noun Date: 14th century 1 a : the angular distance of a celestial object below the horizon b : the size of an angle of depression 2 : an act of depressing or a state of being depressed: as a : a pressing down : lowering b (1) : a state of feeling sad : dejection (2) : a psychoneurotic or psychotic disorder marked especially by sadness, inactivity, difficulty in thinking and concentration, a significant increase or decrease in appetite and time spent sleeping, feelings of dejection and hopelessness, and sometimes suicidal tendencies c (1) : a reduction in activity, amount, quality, or force (2) : a lowering of vitality or functional activity 3 : a depressed place or part : hollow 4 : low 1b 5 : a period of low general economic activity marked especially by rising levels of unemployment ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ At least according to this definition it can mean either clinical depression OR just the state of feeling sad. It's not an all or nothing word here. Thank you Miss Droid! You made my point clear! Read it and weep Saint! (just don't cry so much or else you will need some meds)
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saint
BIG THING
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Post by saint on Jun 10, 2010 9:08:24 GMT -5
This is going to be my last post on the matter, as it's clear that we could go around in circles for ever. Yes, I accept your suggestion that you're human MM, and that's reassured me that non-humans haven't infiltrated the internet.
However, I'll say this again: depression is a condition, and not an emotion. You can be in a depressed state, meaning your mood has been lowered. But that is by virtue of using the word depress (de-press) to mean 'push down', or 'to lower'. But you can't really be depressed; by sheer definition of depression (the condition) being an illness, you are suffering from, or experiencing depression. It's very different.
Personally, and I'm not trying to trump you - so stay calm - I had several years out of work because I was diagnosed with depression. It very nearly killed me; trashed my career, and I now define my life as either that which was before, or after I was ill. Consequently, I've sat with doctors, therapists, and read a lot of books during the process of getting well again. So, if you'll possibly steady yourself, I would like to suggest that I know what I'm talking about. And to be honest, I think you'll find that most people that have experienced proper, medically diagnosed depression have a bit of a problem with people who exclaim "ohh, I feel depressed today"; not because they feel they have some kind of monopoly on feeling blue, but because (through experience) they understand that the person is misusing the term. To make a humorous connection, it's a bit like men and man-flu: The joke being that men supposedly assume they have something life threatening when in fact what they have is more often than not, a cold. Human beings are often hypochondriacal; and where depression and the varying degrees of sadness are concerned, ill-informed people use the term depression as a catch-all term to describe despondency.
MM, you got my goat because you were very damning about depression in your first post, and to be honest came across like someone who was displaying some ignorance and possibly had a chip on their shoulder. Equally, you are shouting very loudly about something which, I have to say you're wrong about. Whether you're humble enough to accept the words of either myself of Miss November Tuesday (with both of us having experienced depression in its truest context) is entirely up to you.
I'm not being PC, and it's nothing personal, but I do have a problem with people kicking illnesses. You wouldn't have said the same thing about someone with anorexia - which is also an undeserved state of mental illness, and also a term which is misused to suggest someone doesn't eat properly - or at least I hope you wouldn't go up to someone with an eating order, and say pull yourself together.
End of.
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Post by Blank on Jun 10, 2010 9:20:10 GMT -5
2 : state of being depressed: a state of feeling sad: dejection (2) : a psychoneurotic or psychotic disorder marked especially by sadness, inactivity, difficulty in thinking and concentration, a significant increase or decrease in appetite and time spent sleeping, feelings of dejection and hopelessness, and sometimes suicidal tendencies At least according to this definition it can mean either clinical depression OR just the state of feeling sad. It's not an all or nothing word here. quite. missnovembertuesday, i don't know what pshychiatric conditions simons suffers from or not, but I personally would never say simon is bipolar. this is a very serious affirmation. I know what bipolar disorder is. In a nutshell it's a severe psychiatric illness which impairs the person from functioning, may lead to psychotic episodes that include dellusions and total detachment from reality, marked by manic depressive bouts, and is likely to end up in hospitalisation. We have talked about Adam Ant recently in the general forum. That's someone with bipolar disorder. Please be careful with your "diagnoses"; these are not light matters.
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Post by musicmaniac on Jun 10, 2010 9:24:25 GMT -5
Thank god That's not true, keebler elves do my typing when I am asleep at night However, I'll say this again: depression is a condition, and not an emotion. You can be in a depressed state, meaning your mood has been lowered (where the word depressed means the X in question has been lowered), but if you are depressed, by sheer definition of depression (the condition) being an illness, you are suffering from, or experiencing depression. It's very different. I can understand how you would think anyone that experiences an emotion would be weird, but sorry to disappoint you, I am sitting here smiling listening to some Dead Milkmen. I had several years out of work because I was diagnosed with depression. Consequently, I've sat with doctors, therapists, and read a lot of books during the process of getting well again. So, if you'll possibly steady yourself, I would like to suggest that I know what I'm talking about. And to be honest, I think you'll find that most people that have experienced proper, medically diagnosed depression have a bit of a problem with people who exclaim "ohh, I feel depressed today"; not because they feel they have some kind of monopoly on feeling blue, but because (through experience) they understand that the person is misusing the term. To make a humorous connection, it's a bit like men and man-flu: The joke being that men supposedly assume they have something life threatening when in fact what they have is more often than not, a cold. Human beings are often melodramatic, or hypochondriacal when it comes to illness. And where depression and the varying degrees of sadness are concerned, ill-informed people use the term depression as a catch-all term to describe despondency. you're not the first and definitely won't be the last let's not lie now, how do you really feel?..lol If you hear me shouting, you got something more severe than depression going on. Well I hope so! What are you going to do? Tie me up in a chair and tickle my toes with a feather that's up your nose til I cave in? (I know I Know, I'm a poet)
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Post by MissNovemberTuesday on Jun 11, 2010 8:39:54 GMT -5
Seriously MM, you need to read up on things before you set yourself up as an authority: depression is not an emotion. Depression is a condition... in other words an illness or disorder. The whole point of what I'VE been trying to say is that people have hoodwinked the word depression to define a low emotional state, when in actual fact it is something more specific. 'Being depressed' has become a term that is, by definition, a misappropriation. When people walk around saying "oooohhh, I'm depressed" they are misusing the term; generally out of ignorance. If someone says they're drunk on love, they're not literally drunk; they're relating the heady feeling of being in love to intoxication. What we're saying is depression has become a lazy approximation of a feeling, a description that is semantically incorrect. This is the definition of depression, as stated by the World Health Organisation. Now, obviously, if you know better than them, feel free to get in touch with them via the United Nations. Depression is a common mental disorder that presents with depressed mood, loss of interest or pleasure, feelings of guilt or low self-worth, disturbed sleep or appetite, low energy, and poor concentration. These problems can become chronic or recurrent and lead to substantial impairments in an individual's ability to take care of his or her everyday responsibilities. At its worst, depression can lead to suicide, a tragic fatality associated with the loss of about 850 000 lives every year.I may need medication.
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Post by thetange on Jun 11, 2010 20:21:24 GMT -5
This is going to be my last post on the matter, as it's clear that we could go around in circles for ever. Yes, I accept your suggestion that you're human MM, and that's reassured me that non-humans haven't infiltrated the internet. However, I'll say this again: depression is a condition, and not an emotion. You can be in a depressed state, meaning your mood has been lowered. But that is by virtue of using the word depress (de-press) to mean 'push down', or 'to lower'. But you can't really be depressed; by sheer definition of depression (the condition) being an illness, you are suffering from, or experiencing depression. It's very different. Personally, and I'm not trying to trump you - so stay calm - I had several years out of work because I was diagnosed with depression. It very nearly killed me; trashed my career, and I now define my life as either that which was before, or after I was ill. Consequently, I've sat with doctors, therapists, and read a lot of books during the process of getting well again. So, if you'll possibly steady yourself, I would like to suggest that I know what I'm talking about. And to be honest, I think you'll find that most people that have experienced proper, medically diagnosed depression have a bit of a problem with people who exclaim "ohh, I feel depressed today"; not because they feel they have some kind of monopoly on feeling blue, but because (through experience) they understand that the person is misusing the term. To make a humorous connection, it's a bit like men and man-flu: The joke being that men supposedly assume they have something life threatening when in fact what they have is more often than not, a cold. Human beings are often hypochondriacal; and where depression and the varying degrees of sadness are concerned, ill-informed people use the term depression as a catch-all term to describe despondency. MM, you got my goat because you were very damning about depression in your first post, and to be honest came across like someone who was displaying some ignorance and possibly had a chip on their shoulder. Equally, you are shouting very loudly about something which, I have to say you're wrong about. Whether you're humble enough to accept the words of either myself of Miss November Tuesday (with both of us having experienced depression in its truest context) is entirely up to you. I'm not being PC, and it's nothing personal, but I do have a problem with people kicking illnesses. You wouldn't have said the same thing about someone with anorexia - which is also an undeserved state of mental illness, and also a term which is misused to suggest someone doesn't eat properly - or at least I hope you wouldn't go up to someone with an eating order, and say pull yourself together. End of. I still say, "who hasn't experienced?" what you describe as a condition of being depressed? Sure - I think it can be an illness for some.....but it's a fairly universal thing.....yes, even the extended bouts of it. Simon, for example. We're here trying to diagnose him as "depressed" and "bipolar". I just kinda question why. His best friend died. He felt a bit responsible....like he didn't do enough (completely universal, normal response....."If only I had....[fill in the blank]"); he was the lead singer of the biggest band in the world and in the span of just a couple of years couldn't get arrested. I guess what I'm saying is - I think it would be more of a medical condition if he didn't suffer in those circumstances. Ordinary World and Do You Believe In Shame both are positive songs.....of someone choosing to overcome.....not with the help of docs pushing prescription drugs....but rather by looking into the very things (life!) causing pain and figuring it out. In other words....pulling himself together. Yep - sometimes folks do have to pull themselves out of depression by doing the work. People do it everyday and without so much as a whisper. You mention having experienced depression to it's truest extent.......I don't think you meant to, but that implies that others who have ALSO experienced it, but who have a different take on it, have not "truly" experienced it. You can't make that statement and be accurate.....you're personalizing it. And that kinda ties into why I've been curious reading this thread (and a few others in the past on this topic). I often remark that there's nothing wrong with speculating.....but speculating about Simon suffering from depression, etc., seems strange......and then to use that phrase of "having suffered in the truest sense", implying that others have not..... I know what I'm trying to get at, but I'm really failing to put it into words. It's not that I disagree with some of the things you've said, it's perhaps the context of depression being presented as an outlier, or something that is exclusive to some set of folks who have experienced it in a "truest extent". No offense, but it bugs me that you'd say that.....even though I don't think you realized what you're saying. You don't own these very universal experiences any more than anyone else does. It seems both odd to me that in this thread we would tag someone (Simon) as sharing in this "illness" and at the same time, indirectly assume/deny that others have experienced it. Seems self-serving to me. In a nutshell....I think what I'm trying to say is......do you really think it's such an exclusive experience (and yes....again.....I'm talking about the tough, extended stuff)? How can any of us know to what extent someone else has experienced these types of things? No one has a yard stick to measure one person's [fill in the blank] vs. someone elses (ie, having "truly" experienced something). Even if we could.......I'm not sure I understand the purpose.
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