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Post by thetange on Jun 4, 2010 19:58:53 GMT -5
Interesting comments on the interview from everybody. I kinda find myself on all sides of the fence on this one. Kudos for some good questions, even if a few were a bit leading.....but still - they got some interesting comments from Warren. Agreed! Good questions and even though I vehemently disagree with WaCu...good responses as well. I think they are honest, no BS (in HIS mind anyway) responses. I said the same thing about the flakiness factor over at LKDD. I just majorly LOL'ed when I read that comment about flakiness from him. Like OH SUUURE...like HE is some kind of template for non-flakiness! LMAO!!! Good lord...of COURSE the Rock ROD didn't HELP the band at ALL! I've never been an apologist for Andy quitting (The first time. The second time...well, I'm still confused as to whether he QUIT or was let go). Hmmm...yeah, now that you mention it, I DO recall something like that too. Just more sour grapes from WaCu. HAHAHA!!! Amen to THAT! I never thought EB was a very good song either...but probably the best there is (next to Big Bang Generation) on that mess of an album. No way can I agree that Pop Trash is better than Astronaut. No way. Anyway - cool interview.....sort of a "Warren: The Good, the Bad, the Ugly". This is the guy who insists that the U.S. government attacked New York and Washington on 9/11 and that anyone who disagrees with him has been brainwashed. And then there was the whole pseudo-religious-awakening thing where he seemed to aspire to being a prophet of some sort. Never quite understood that and attributed it to what I assume was Warren doing some serious drugs at the time. How long before Warren writes/records something with em? All that 9/11 truther thing was BIZARRE!!! Ditto for the religious awakening, although had he really reconnected with God/faith in some way I don't think that would have been a bad thing. That's a positive, not a negative...but it depends on how wacked out over it a person can be. Meh...I don't know the details of that, so I'll end comment on that. But hey, I do think the whole thing of banning him from the shows and not going to his restaurant was kind of tacky. Ok...REALLY tacky. I don't see the reason for that... The thing I like about Pop Trash and that is missing from many of their albums/songs, is there's "space". Sure - they use synths and guitar effects, reverb - but theres still space between the instruments. It's not a constant wall of sound or blips and bleeps. And the drums on PT really appeal to me. They sound full and organic. I despise the melodramatic title of the album, the lousy cover, even the intentionally cheap looking photos.....I just hate the whole concept from the standpoint of the packaging/marketing (including their video EKP). But the music? I think it's one of their most well rounded albums. Even the lighter fare on the album....Halucinating Elvis, for example, has some cool tempo changes, rock guitar, and goes somewhere. And then the great songs....stuff like Starting to Remember or The Sun Doesn't Shine Forever.......the lyrics (didn't Nick write these?) are worthy of the songs. Heck, I even like Someone Else Not Me (I think Simon wrote the lyric to that one) and just speaking lyrically on that one......it's so well done. The single was absolutely and astonishingly butchered, cutting out half the verses that make the song work. Astronaut on the other hand.....it's decent, but I have to scratch two songs off instantly: Sunrise (finger in mouth to vomit motion) and Bedroom Toys. Lousy, lousy, lousy. "Reach up for the sunrsise.....put your hands in the big sky" ?? Are you serious? And this was a first single to a big reunion deal - AND it had already been released on a soundtrack months and months prior? And then a botched video (well, five)? Again....quality control issues. The first half of Astronaut.....it's ok.....I don't hate it. The song Astronaut is kinda fun but not in a huge way. I really like What Happens Tomorrow, but the version that appears on Astronaut just pisses me off because of the missing bridge. Who's decision was that??? I like the 2nd half of Astronaut the best - but it kinda falls short in places......almost great, but just doesn't get there. Just kinda frustrating in a way - but again, I "like" the album overall and I don't have a problem with anyone prefering Astronaut over Pop Trash. I just think Pop Trash suffers from a stupid title/album cover/package that detracts from the quality of the actual music. You know you're one of my board buddy's, but I totally disagree with ya about Electric Barbarella/Big Bang Generation being the best stuff on Medazzaland. No way! Midnight Sun.......Michael.........Be My Icon.......So Long Suicide......Medazzaland (song) are much, much better songs. Hell, Electric Barbarella is the WORST song on that album by far IMO. Hum the melody......it's freggin :ry rhyme stuff. Totally embarassing music. Having said that - my best bud, who is a Parrothead (that's a Jimmy Buffet fan for anyone outside of the States...not sure if "Parrotheads" are known elsewhere) / country music guy.....he freggin likes EB. Never could figure that one out. Medazzaland is far from perfect - but I admire the guys for trying (even if it was a Radiohead-Duran attempt). At least there's some originality and Radiohead weren't really massive at the time. The album is a bit over produced, as is typical with Duran - but still..... Getting back on topic to Warren.....the religious thing was out there. If memory serves, it was one of those "God is what I say 'it' is because I had an experience five minutes ago and I'm now enlightened and i'm now here to enlighten you....". Hopefully that impression made years ago is halfway accurate. He's a great musician though.......despite whatever slagging any of us can give him.......no one can take away his enormous talent and I appreciate what he brought to Duran. In fact, I wish there was a lot more of that technical ability in the band.....and Warren tends to have a much broader scope in terms of music than the rest of the guys.
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Post by coolbarn on Jun 5, 2010 6:05:40 GMT -5
Nice post Randall. Seriously, when you're not slagging off the fanbase or trying to provoke people your posts are so much better to read!
I agree. In a perfect world Andy and Nick could play together nicely, Andy would have never left, and Duran Duran would be universally regarded as one of the best pop bands of all time. But in a perfect world I'd be typing this aboard my own luxury ocean liner whilst sipping a cocktail being held for me by Angelina Jolie whilst Jessica Alba fed me grapes. It aint gonna happen.
So while I would happily accept either Andy or Warren back into the fold, I'm resigned to the fact that in all likelihood it's over as Randall suggests.
Actually I take that back. I can only judge the guitarists by what they brought the group (relatively) recently. Andy didn't bring much. The songs on his MySpace page aren't very good, and Astronaut was a very disappointing album for a reunion record. So while he was a great guitarist 30 years ago that perfectly suited the Duran Duran sound back then, maybe his approach, sound, and songwriting don't suit them as much today? I'm just a little saddened that Duran have finally decided to write an album similar to their first two (and best) albums, yet Andy won't be involved. That is a shame, I would love to see what he could have brought to the table. I would love for Duran Duran to rediscover the magic that made them so good in the first place.
Warren is a different story. An immensely talented guitarist no doubt, a very good musician, but I don't think he would be best for the band any more either. Personally as amazing and innovative a guitar player as Warren is, I just don't think he's a good influence on Nick. I think between the pair of them they tend to focus on unusual sounds to the detriment of actually melodic, catchy, pop/rock music. When Warren got it right with Duran he was every bit Andy's equal. But I happen to think he got it wrong more with the band than Andy did.
IMO Duran's best music was/is when the guitar is an integral part of the music, where John's basslines lead the music and the guitar follows along nicely. Look at some of those guitar riffs from the first two albums - Girls On Film, Planet Earth, Friends Of Mine, Rio, Hungry Like The Wolf, Hold Back The Rain, New Religion, and Save A Prayer. They weren't impossible riffs played by a supercomputer, they were simple, effective, suitable, catchy, classic rhythms played by a clever guitarist. The music was so ingenious every instrumentalist had his time in the sun. Even with those magnificent bass and rhythm/lead guitars, you still got to hear really cool keyboard chords and powerful, interesting drums.
I think Duran Duran need a guitarist who makes sure he gets heard. They need a producer who ensures there is enough space in the songs for everyone to get heard, because if not, somebody like Nick tends to keep adding layers and sounds until the song eventually becomes a garbled mess.
Duran Duran need a guitarist. They need a great and suitable guitarist, but not necessarily an incredible, individual virtuoso. Most importantly they need a guitarist who can come up with catchy riffs and ensure that technical wizardry doesn't interfere with the songwriting and end product. Hopefully Dom is that man, or if not, ideally they find him as soon as possible.
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Post by thetange on Jun 5, 2010 6:59:09 GMT -5
Here's the thing. You could say its sour grapes, etc. but perhaps there is something to it. Andy could NEVER play Warren's stuff the way Warren did but on the other hand, Warren could never play Andy's (or in at least one case, Nile's) the right way either! I mean remember how the band did Notorious while Warren was in the band? NO FUNK! It wasn't there! However, Dom seems to be at ease playing most of the stuff either guitarist played. Personally, I think they need to both remain a part of DD's history and they need to continue on with Dom or if not, find someone else completely. I know this will be a VERY hated statement but Andy had his chance, twice, why give him another? I don't give a flying fart in space that he was the "original" guitarist. He flaked out on them, TWICE, why give him a third time? Especially when Dom was ready for them on what seemed like a moment's notice? He also learned new songs shockingly fast. The guy has the talent, he seems to fit, why are people so adverse to giving him a shot? Also, not to take away from either of them, while they were in Duran they both made their marks and they are both talented, however, I don't think DD's future contains either one of them or else one of them would be there now. Yep Randal, to echo Coolbarn.......great post! I think as long as the guys are all alive, that we probably haven't heard the last of Andy or Warren's involvement. I think you're right that there could be something to Warren's comments beyond sour grapes......that's where I was kinda on both sides of the fence while reading the interview. However - I think we have to remember the history of all of these guys. Past statements, etc. The comment about Andy being "pure rage". I found that one interesting. It's a second hand comment.....from Nick to Warren supposedly. These guys all have such extreme personalities. None of them are what I would consider to be rational, logical, objective sorts. Pure rage. That's a pretty extreme statement in itself. I just question where that is coming from. I'd love to just believe,"Yep, Andy got issues and is full of rage". It just doesn't quite fit the profile though. I hate to go back to Andy's book again, but there's just no rage there. Not even in a disguised kinda way of trying to make himself look good and make them look bad. There is a lot of depression there though....not just stated, but you get the sense that Andy is very sentimental and that those attachments run deep. I think theres genuine frustration with all the guys that they haven't been able to make their "marrage" work. I'm really interested in personality types these days. I'm a INTJ ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/INTJ#Characteristics_of_INTJs ) in the Myers Briggs thing, which is intended to help folks understand themselves and others better. There's so much misperception between folks. Two people with similar values can witness the same thing and come away with completely different takes on what they just saw. I know this is common sense stuff - but I'm interested in those dynamics, and I think that's even part of my interest in the inner workings of this band. I guess the "for 40 year olds" fanzine would have the band members personality type indicators vs. their favorite colors or flavor of ice cream. <grin> But Randal - back to your post.....I do whole heartedly agree that "perhaps there's something to it" - and you did a great job laying that possibility out.
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Post by kittyfunpuppy on Jun 5, 2010 7:38:30 GMT -5
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Post by musicmaniac on Jun 5, 2010 7:45:24 GMT -5
Randall, you're da man of the hour. I don't agree with everything you typed, but you put it in a way that makes sense. You did a great job expressing yourself!
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Post by moonagedaydream on Jun 5, 2010 7:48:12 GMT -5
Yeah, that "Rock Rod" and amateur porno was really "world class".
::GUFFAW:::
You should've asked about the perceptions of THAT in the fan community. What, is there a clause that says you/anyone can't ask those taboo questions? That, to me, and many others is a big factor in not wanting him back. Too creepy.
HAHAHAHA!!!
Andy RULES. Chicanery is...um...not that good (then again, neither is Burger Kingdom -- aside from the guitar work) and will likely only sell CDs to the WaCu faithful here and at LKDD as someone else posted earlier.
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Post by moonagedaydream on Jun 5, 2010 7:57:21 GMT -5
Here's the thing. You could say its sour grapes, etc. but perhaps there is something to it. Andy could NEVER play Warren's stuff the way Warren did but on the other hand, Warren could never play Andy's (or in at least one case, Nile's) the right way either! I mean remember how the band did Notorious while Warren was in the band? NO FUNK! It wasn't there! However, Dom seems to be at ease playing most of the stuff either guitarist played. Personally, I think they need to both remain a part of DD's history and they need to continue on with Dom or if not, find someone else completely. That part I agreed with -- and it exposes the hypocrisy of Warren's critique of Andy's performance on OW. But, I'll tell ya what -- I always gave WaCu a chance during all the shows I saw him perform at. I was never out there saying "Man! He really fckued up that song". I thought he did a good job of filling in for Andy, but there were clearly stylistic differences...no biggie. It wasn't a deal breaker for me...and were it not for sour grapes, it shouldn't be for Warren as well. He could have just as easily said "Well, it was an interesting way of playing it...yadda, yadda". But, because he got his feelings hurt on the concert ban/restaurant snub/laughing about Rock Rod during the panel interview with the band he seems to be lashing out. That's my perception anyway. I know this will be a VERY hated statement but Andy had his chance, twice, why give him another? I don't give a flying fart in space that he was the "original" guitarist. He flaked out on them, TWICE, why give him a third time? Especially when Dom was ready for them on what seemed like a moment's notice? He also learned new songs shockingly fast. The guy has the talent, he seems to fit, why are people so adverse to giving him a shot? Also, not to take away from either of them, while they were in Duran they both made their marks and they are both talented, however, I don't think DD's future contains either one of them or else one of them would be there now. That part, I didn't agree with. The reason is, we don't know all the details of Andy's second departure. Was it depression due to his Dad's death? Was it creative differences? Was it the infamous "Visa incident"? Who knows? Despite the book and all the comments made, it's still not clear to me. At any rate, yes! I think he deserves a third chance...you get three strikes in baseball. Andy's on strike two, but he could hit a home run third time at the plate. Knowhatimean? Makes sense to me...and he's a damned good guitarist when he's not miming. LOL! However, I've also said Dom should have a shot (while he's playing for the band) and we should have an open mind about him repeatedly -- it's just that I'd rather see Andy up there on the stage cos I'm admittedly very pro-Andy. But, I've also said if Andy wanted to come back the band should TAKE him back...and then it would be hasta la vista Dom-ino. And just like a DOMino, he'd hve to fall. Sadly. Regrettably. But, Dom is basically a session player anyway, so I would think it would not be a big dealio. Tange, you and I are cool. We obviously disagree on some songs but hey, that's what makes the world go round. LOL! BTW, I didn't say I particularly liked Electric Barbarella -- it's just (IMHO) one of the better songs in a handful of decent songs on Medazzaland. I agree, while I think (based on public persona) Andy could possibly have a bit of a temper, there was no indication of that in his book -- or on his website.
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Post by thetange on Jun 5, 2010 8:52:02 GMT -5
Cool interview and especially liked the way you followed up with questions about Warren's recent comments. My comments below are strictly a reaction to the responses by Neil/Warren......the interview itself was great. I'd like to know what Neil bases his comments about Andy on. I mean.....he's friends with Warren, and as Neil himself says - he has an obvious bias. I just think a more rational person would say, "I've never been part of Duran and that's between those guys" vs. "Warren is world class and Andy isn't". Earlier, the interview definitely cemented (for me, at least) the view that Warren is nuts when it comes to anything remotely related to politics or history: "I just think the general public should be aware of the various deception techniques used to confuse and lull them into a stupor… if everything from Pearl Harbor to Apollo to JFK to 9/11 are lies, (and they are undoubtedly) who are we dealing with??? Illusionists… mass media mind controllers… Awareness destroys their matrix… what was the question??? Ha!" I think history rooted in reality is probably too dull for ol' Warren's noggin. I read/heard him talk about the 9/11 stuff and the guy is an idiot in that regard. A total moron. He NEEDS for history to be something other than it is, vs. being a truth seeker. Kinda like ol' Helen Thomas this week telling Jews to get the hell out of Palastine and go back to Germany and Poland. She's got a world view that is based on bias and not based on real history. History doesn't change, at least not if it is viewed in proper context. Folks like Warren and Thomas intentionally try to mislead in order to protect their own biased world views. Thomas has since appologized for her venom, which was caught on video ( www.breitbart.tv/helen-thomas-tells-jews-get-the-hell-out-of-palestine-and-go-back-to-germany-poland )....but the apology is only to save face. Sorry to get on this topic a bit, but just been amazed recently at the growing anti Jewish sentiment. I'm not Jewish - so this isn't about me. It's about history repeating itself again and again. Anti-Jewish Socialists protesting in New York this week.....and very little outrage. And Warren believes the U.S. government took down the towers on 9/11 and attacked Washington as well. Kinda makes it hard for me to take anything seriously about these types. And speaking of media spin and "illusionists"....lol.......glad to know that Neil wasn't trying to "mislead" anyone by previously saying that Warren was working on a project with John Taylor. And the project is? A short video message for John's 50th birthday. No........that wasn't misleading. Naw......lol. Not a bit. Geez.........
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Post by moonagedaydream on Jun 5, 2010 9:21:11 GMT -5
You are exactly right, Tange.
But -- I'm not going to get into the political debate this time -- but I am sure many of you KNOW where I stand on this (Sea Hag Helen Thomas, 9/11 truthers, etc.) as a staunch and unapologetic conservative. So, why beat a dead horse and engage in another flame war?
I take Warren seriously on his ability to play a guitar and his talents. I don't turn to him on politics or real world stuff. If an entertainers views align with mine with regard to politics that's great but when we disagree it's because they are usually so radically left that there's no room for compromise. So, I just have to sort of "hit the delete key" on what they say and appreciate them only for their musical talents, acting ability, skills as a director, yadda yadda.
But they risk not ever getting another penny from me.
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Post by musicmaniac on Jun 5, 2010 9:51:40 GMT -5
You are exactly right, Tange. But -- I'm not going to get into the political debate this time -- but I am sure many of you KNOW where I stand on this (Sea Hag Helen Thomas, 9/11 truthers, etc.) as a staunch and unapologetic conservative. So, why beat a dead horse and engage in another flame war? I take Warren seriously on his ability to play a guitar and his talents. I don't turn to him on politics or real world stuff. If an entertainers views align with mine with regard to politics that's great but when we disagree it's because they are usually so radically left that there's no room for compromise. So, I just have to sort of "hit the delete key" on what they say and appreciate them only for their musical talents, acting ability, skills as a director, yadda yadda. But they risk not ever getting another penny from me. [glow=red,2,300Ok]some points I need to bring out: 1. We are talking about a guy who wears aluminum foil around his head because he thinking the government is monitoring him. A whack job that whacks for the cam! BADA BING! 2. Yes, stylistically, Andy and Warren are different, and they both are credible competent musicians, but Warren's style doesn't bring out the Duran-esque in Duran! Only Andy can do that! Warren's musical output is the same output of what comes out when he is done with one of his self cam videos. 3. Warren is blantantly slagging off Andy in such a hostile manner that it is apparent he is jealous and insecure. 4. I think Nick coordinated to where it was systematically devised that Warren and the fab five never bumped into each other. Nick likes to set the platform of a situation and once the dominos come tumbling down, he feigns ignorance and plays innocent. 5. Moonie, you keeping mentioning sour grapes I am gonna have to go out and buy me some wine! Don't worry you can have some, and I would offer some to my other forum buddy Tange but he doesn't drink, so that means he is designated driver! 6. I hope the aliens abduct Warren and take him back to where he originated, which is anywhere but this planet! 7. No more points, I just like that number and it makes me feel like I completed this post.[/glow]
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