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Post by wiseandnaked on Sept 30, 2011 9:23:23 GMT -5
MM: "I don't like cheaters, but they're not really the poor."
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The point is that you've been conditioned to believe that the great majority of people receiving aid are cheaters and lazy. That is the assumption that I challenge.
You've also been conditioned to believe that private charities are somehow better at being able to discern the truly needy from the slackers. Some evidence please.
Again, what it would take for gov't agencies to do a better job at rooting out fraud is more money. And a certain faction stands in the way of that funding.
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Post by wiseandnaked on Sept 30, 2011 9:33:27 GMT -5
MM: "When the banks were forced to give bad loans, the reps tried to fight against it, but they were told they hate the poor and were racist and it was pushed through by the dems."
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This is a great example of a bald-faced lie perpetuated by the right.
Here is the proof:
1. The dreaded Community Reinvestment Act (CRA) was enacted in 1977. The sub-prime lending at the heart of the current crisis exploded a full quarter century later.
2. In late 2004, the Bush administration announced plans to sharply weaken CRA regulations, pulling small and mid-sized banks out from under the law’s toughest standards. Yet sub-prime lending continued, and even intensified—at the very time when activity under CRA had slowed and the law had weakened.
3. Half of sub-prime loans came from those mortgage companies beyond the reach of CRA. A further 25 to 30 percent came from bank subsidiaries and affiliates, which come under CRA to varying degrees but not as fully as banks themselves. (With affiliates, banks can choose whether to count the loans.) Perhaps one in four sub-prime loans were made by the institutions fully governed by CRA.
4. Independent mortgage companies, which are not covered by CRA, made high-priced loans at more than twice the rate of the banks and thrifts.
Now if you don't want to believe that, go do some research and find statistics that refute what I have just written. I'd like to see them. If you cannot, then you have to accept that you have been lied to by your favorite sources of "news".
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Post by La Princess on Sept 30, 2011 12:12:35 GMT -5
I would argue that if there were enough jobs they absolutely could get off of them. I very much agree with you that aid should be given on a sliding scale, and to people who make more money, in order to give people an incentive to get ahead. Right now there is only enough money to help the very poorest of the poor and THAT is the reason why people get dropped when they make too much money. Changing the system for the better would take more funding, and Repubs want these programs de-funded and won't let that happen. It's ironic that they obstruct measures that would make the system better, and then complain that the system is the way that it is because the Dems have some sort of conspiracy to keep people voting for Democrats. Typical, though. Not true. Maybe now this is true, but back in the 90's there were plenty of jobs and I still knew lazy people on welfare. I had a friend who was too lazy to find a job because welfare paid her more than a minimum wage job. |
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Post by marchmadness on Sept 30, 2011 14:33:10 GMT -5
That's not true. I actually knew very little about welfare until I got to know people on it. No one conditioned me to believe anything except the people that are on it.
Eat Better Today card.
I'm going to go gather some information for you regarding this and post later. I can't refute quickly with a couple of youtube videos like the above couple of things. I haven't ignored or forgotten it.
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Post by La Princess on Sept 30, 2011 15:11:15 GMT -5
Anyone who says the fraud on welfare is minor has never been to Chicago. I have seen MANY cases of obvious or more overt welfare fraud. I know people who didn't get married so the mom could be a "stay at home" mom and the dad had a job but they were on welfare. I don't care if someone stays at home as long as I'm not paying. Then no, that is wrong. I do not want to support people like that. Not to mention that many people on food stamps often eat better than me. I know this isn't technically fraud, but I am outraged when I see someone buying steak or lobster on food stamps when I can't afford it. I am especially outraged when that person can't speak English, and yes I see this often.
I've had friends who worked the system. One became a stripper and collecting welfare though she was making money as a stripper. Another friend would claim illnesses she didn't have just to sell the medication.
No I do not hate the poor but hate when people rip off the system. I reported my friends who abused it and they were kicked off.
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Post by marisan on Oct 3, 2011 15:06:41 GMT -5
I think if Obama loses it's not because of the economy. It's because of his Republican-like care of the corporations and his siding with the 1% of the richest in the U.S. People are upset not because of the unemployment but because of his continuing support of Bush era tax-cut for the richest. Anyway, it's great that the "Occupy Wall-street" movement is spreading. In terms of the welfare fraud, I wonder if the banks' and major corporations' cheatings and the bail-outs are any better than than the poor people's cheating to save pennies to buy food for their malnurished and sick babies. occupywallst.org/ |
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Post by marchmadness on Oct 3, 2011 21:30:44 GMT -5
Really? I'd like you to show me one person in the US who is cheating welfare to save pennies for their malnourished and sick babies. In order for this to be true, they'd actually have to be poor and refused welfare. No cable tv, no Xbox, no cell phone, no name brand purse or Gucci nails. Because if you're cheating to save pennies to feed your malnourished and sick babies you won't have any luxuries. You're just too busy trying to keep your malnourished and sick baby alive! Playing online games, watching cable tv and getting your nails done just aren't important when your babies are malnourished and sick. Not that I think the bail outs were a good thing. I don't. But the over dramatic, clearly not true portrait of a welfare cheater you painted really is laughable. That person does not exist in the US. Maybe in some 3rd world country, but they don't have welfare there so it's not even comparable. Yes, it is great.  www.billoreilly.com/video?chartID=610&vid=172312611212677960 |
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Post by marchmadness on Oct 3, 2011 21:34:33 GMT -5
wiseandnaked-I have not forgotten about you. I've been quite ill the last few days and am just on the computer to get some work done so I thought I'd pop over and see what's kickin' on the DD board. I'll get back with you once I am able to sit here for a while and feel like doing some searches for things I have in mind.
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Post by wiseandnaked on Oct 4, 2011 9:20:20 GMT -5
No worries. I'm actually going on vacation now (and missing Duran Duran in my town to do it! waaaah). I'll be back in two weeks.
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Post by marchmadness on Oct 4, 2011 14:02:53 GMT -5
No worries. I'm actually going on vacation now (and missing Duran Duran in my town to do it! waaaah). I'll be back in two weeks. Have a good time! I've also went on vacation and missed DD while I was away. It's awesome but sucks at the same time. |
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