An inside look at the US' Republican Party

[La Princess]

Oct 3, 2011 21:30:44 GMT -5 marchmadness said:

Really? I'd like you to show me one person in the US who is cheating welfare to save pennies for their malnourished and sick babies. In order for this to be true, they'd actually have to be poor and refused welfare. No cable tv, no Xbox, no cell phone, no name brand purse or Gucci nails. Because if you're cheating to save pennies to feed your malnourished and sick babies you won't have any luxuries. You're just too busy trying to keep your malnourished and sick baby alive! Playing online games, watching cable tv and getting your nails done just aren't important when your babies are malnourished and sick.

Not that I think the bail outs were a good thing. I don't. But the over dramatic, clearly not true portrait of a welfare cheater you painted really is laughable. That person does not exist in the US. Maybe in some 3rd world country, but they don't have welfare there so it's not even comparable.

Agreed. The people I know who are scamming the system are not worried about their sick kids. In fact I know of one case where a childhood friend was often hungry because her slutty alcoholic mother sold her food stamps to buy drugs. The people I know cheating the system are doing it to be greedy. Besides, depending on the size of the family, they usually get a good amount of food stamps plus WIC if they have very young kids.

My opinion about the Wall Street protests is that the banks are greedy and evil. I am fighting a credit card company now because they keep charging me on a credit card that was closed. The credit cards companies are repulsive and they punish people like me (who pays my bills)so others who choose not to pay don't have to.

This country is screwed up but it's both parties. I think the outsourcing problem is something we need to fix.

[nightboat13]

marisan - Obama was forced by the repugnitards to continue the Bush Era tax cuts for the rich in order to get unemployment benefits extended and to get tax breaks for the working poor.



Five Major Welfare Myths

Myth #1: The typical welfare recipient is a black inner city single mother.

The Census Bureau's most recent annual poverty report found that urban black mothers constitute less than one out of six of all poor households. Rural white families account for more--one out of five. White surburban families accountfor even more--one out of four.

Myth #2: The poor are lazy.

Forty percent of poor adults work, although many cannot find full time jobs. Indeed, even when they do they may still be in poverty. Some 11 million jobs in 1991 paid less than $11,500, $2,000 under the official poverty level for a family of four. Of those poor adults who don't work, 90 percent fall into the following categories: 22 percent are disabled, 17 percent are in school, 21 percent are elderly retirees, 31 percent have family responsibilities.

Myth #3: Welfare mothers breed welfare daughters.

Two long term studies reported by the House Ways and Means Committee in 1992 found that only about one in five daughters of "highly welfare dependent" mothers themselves become highly dependent on welfare. The rest rely on welfare sporadically or not at all.

Myth #4: Throwing people off the welfare rolls will eventually improve their lives and save taxpayers money.

The most celebrated experiment in welfare reform has occurred in Michigan. Governor Engler completely eliminated his state's $240 million General Assistance(GA) payments to 83,000 childless, able bodied adults.Only 8 percent of these former GA recipients found employment and they earn
an average of only $120 a week. Many sell blood for $20 a pint. Over one third lost their homes when the program ended. As one study notes, if only 5 percent of these former GA recipients end up in prison or a state psychiatric institution all the taxpayer savings from ending General Assistance will be lost.

Myth #5: Welfare is cheaper than creating well paying public jobs.

In his book "Securing the Right to Employment", Philip Harvey calculates that in 1986 we could have achieved full employment by creating l0.4 million public service jobs. He further assumed that the average annual wage would be $13,000. The cost of such a program would have been a daunting $142 billion. But when we deduct from this sum the taxes that would be paid by these new workers and the savings from drastically reduced unemployment insurance payments, welfare , Medicaid, food stamps and other expenditures directly linked to low income and unemployment overall we would have spent $13 billion less. A full employment program, even excluding the social savingsfrom reduced family violence, more stable communities, and less crime, pays for itself in reduced welfare expenditures.

If we can overcome these five myths about welfare we may well engage in a national dialogue with meaningful results, not only for the one in five Americans who now live in poverty, but for the nation as a whole. But this will occur only when we challenge and overcome the welfare myths that paralyze our thinking.

www.msu.edu/user/skourtes/myths.html

[errbt]

Oct 5, 2011 21:41:43 GMT -5 nightboat13 said:

If we can overcome these five myths about welfare we may well engage in a national dialogue with meaningful results, not only for the one in five Americans who now live in poverty, but for the nation as a whole. But this will occur only when we challenge and overcome the welfare myths that paralyze our thinking.

www.msu.edu/user/skourtes/myths.html

The thing is, we will never overcome these myths (or any other neo-con talking points) as long as right wing sycophants continue to believe what Bill O'Reilly tells them. It is like hitting your head against a brick wall (or a desk, if you prefer).

[marchmadness]

nightboat-Would you mind sharing the website where you found these welfare myths?

While I'm here...

Myth #1: The typical welfare recipient is a black inner city single mother. The Census Bureau's most recent annual poverty report found that urban black mothers constitute less than one out of six of all poor households. Rural white families account for more--one out of five. White surburban families accountfor even more--one out of four.

Ok, what difference does that make?

Myth #2: The poor are lazy.

We aren't talking about the poor. We are talking about cheaters, which if people were actually looked into, would be a large percentage.

Myth #3: Welfare mothers breed welfare daughters.

I don't know about that. I know many 3rd generation welfare families. Some don't even realize there is a different way of like. They just automatically sign up for welfare when they find out they're pregnant. These people happen to be poor because they're lazy. Well, I take that back. It started with laziness and then it became ignorance to other ways of life. The welfare moms I know grew up with welfare providing everything for them. These moms don't even think about getting a job. They just automatically signed up for welfare-like that's what you're supposed to do once you get pregnant. They raised their children like this and they are raising their children the same way.

Myth #4: Throwing people off the welfare rolls will eventually improve their lives and save taxpayers money.

I didn't say a thing about "throwing" anyone off welfare, except cheaters. I specifically said people on welfare should be allowed their benefits (or tiered benefits) until they're able to support themselves. The all or nothing way they do things now forces people to stay on welfare.

Myth #5: Welfare is cheaper than creating well paying public jobs.

I don't agree with that! Anyone who wants to work should have the opportunity. Now if our govt would back off small businesses and allow them to hire people it would help. Government does not (and is not supposed to) create jobs.

[La Princess]

Btw my views on welfare comes from what I've seen not what some media outlet claims. Why people claim I get it from Fox News (or whatever media outlet)is beyond me since I don't even watch Fox.

Myth #1: The typical welfare recipient is a black inner city single mother.

Anyway, who said anything about race? In fact almost everyone I've known who abused the system were WHITE. Oh sure I've seen black people abuse the system too at the store (the charming woman trying to buy electronics with a Link Card comes to mind)but the majority of those abusing the system are white.

Myth #2: The poor are lazy.

I didn't see anyone call the poor lazy. In fact the working poor are probably the hardest workers I've known. However, most of these workers do not get the full welfare package because they make too much. As for the disabled, elderly and children, I don't expect them to work. I am not talking about these people at all, but those who chose not to work because they would lose benefits or just choose not to work.

I'd like to know what they mean by "31% of those who don't work have family responsibilities". That could mean they are helping an elderly family member, which is understandable. However, this could also mean they aren't working which is wrong.

Myth #3: Welfare mothers breed welfare daughters.

I know a lot who fall into this category.

Myth #4: Throwing people off the welfare rolls will eventually improve their lives and save taxpayers money.

I had a friend who was abusing the system. She was also working a cash job. At the time I was working at McDonalds. I reported her and she lost welfare. She actually thanked me for making her wake up. I am known by many as a welfare narc because if I see welfare abuse I report them.

Myth #5: Welfare is cheaper than creating well paying public jobs.

There are things society can do and one of them is to give tax breaks to companies that keep jobs here. Also, give tax breaks to companies that hire those on welfare (or unemployed because of the economy). Instead, they are raising taxes. My jerk governor Quinn is actually RAISING taxes, which is making many big companies flee to Indiana which has lower taxes.

I don't see anyone attacking those who truly need welfare. There is a segment though who do abuse the system and these people are despicable. We also need to tighten restrictions because in Illinois over half of those on welfare are illegals and their children. They do not belong here and I support automatic deportion for anyone abusing the system and here illegally.

[marisan]

Thank you, nightboat13.
I believe in the Welfare myths that you listed. But that's not really my point. I wanted to stress the Wall Street protest part. Welfare issue is only a secondary issue for me. Let's talk about the Corporate CEOs and their greed, not about a single mom who is trying to save pennies by skipping meals for her 3 kids (just because her husband passed away by accident) and living in a shelter (like someone I know). Let's talk about someone who has 5 houses and 4 cars and buys his wife a handbag that costs $5000 and his mistress a fur coat that costs $$$$$$$! Let's talk about the immense gap between the 1% and the rest of us. The lame comment that came from Obama today on the Wall street protest and his continuous support for the riches and corporations tell you that he is not left at all. He is more towards the right. Do I watch Fox news! Yes, just for a joke.

News I watch is something like this . . .
www.democracynow.org/blog/2011/10/6/naomi_klein_on_occupy_wall_street_to_chil_courage_to_ask_questions_we_dont_have_answers_for

From the show, ". . . we (US) are not broke. We know where money is. It's at the Wall street. We are just having the re-distribution crisis . . . " - Naomi Klein

[errbt]

Oct 7, 2011 13:07:14 GMT -5 La Princess said:

Btw my views on welfare comes from what I've seen not what some media outlet claims. Why people claim I get it from Fox News (or whatever media outlet)is beyond me since I don't even watch Fox.

Why you always assume people are referring to you is beyond me.

[errbt]

Oct 7, 2011 18:31:43 GMT -5 marisan said:

Thank you, nightboart13.
I believe in the Welfare myths that you listed. But that's not really my point. I wanted to stress the Wall Street protest part. Welfare issue is only a secondary issue for me. Let's talk about the Corporate CEOs and their greed, not about a single mom who is trying to save pennies by skipping meals for her 3 kids (just because her husband passed away by accident) and living in a shelter (like someone I know). Let's talk about someone who has 5 houses and 4 cars and buys his wife a handbag that costs $5000 and his mistress a fur coat that costs $$$$$$$! Let's talk about the immense gap between the 1% and the rest of us. The lame comment that came from Obama today on the Wall street protest and his continuous support for the riches and corporations tell you that he is not left at all. He is more towards the right. Do I watch Fox news! Yes, just for a joke.

News I watch is something like this . . .
www.democracynow.org/blog/2011/10/6/naomi_klein_on_occupy_wall_street_to_chil_courage_to_ask_questions_we_dont_have_answers_for

From the show, ". . . we (US) are not broke. We know where money is. It's at the Wall street. We are just having the re-distribution crisis . . . " - Naomi Klein

Nah, unless Bill O'Reilly talks about it, is doesn't exist.

[La Princess]

Oct 7, 2011 20:17:48 GMT -5 errbt said:

Oct 7, 2011 13:07:14 GMT -5 La Princess said:

Btw my views on welfare comes from what I've seen not what some media outlet claims. Why people claim I get it from Fox News (or whatever media outlet)is beyond me since I don't even watch Fox.

Why you always assume people are referring to you is beyond me.

I didn't assume anything I was just stating where my views came from.

[La Princess]

Oct 7, 2011 18:31:43 GMT -5 marisan said:

Thank you, nightboat13.
I believe in the Welfare myths that you listed. But that's not really my point. I wanted to stress the Wall Street protest part. Welfare issue is only a secondary issue for me. Let's talk about the Corporate CEOs and their greed, not about a single mom who is trying to save pennies by skipping meals for her 3 kids (just because her husband passed away by accident) and living in a shelter (like someone I know). Let's talk about someone who has 5 houses and 4 cars and buys his wife a handbag that costs $5000 and his mistress a fur coat that costs $$$$$$$! Let's talk about the immense gap between the 1% and the rest of us. The lame comment that came from Obama today on the Wall street protest and his continuous support for the riches and corporations tell you that he is not left at all. He is more towards the right. Do I watch Fox news! Yes, just for a joke.

News I watch is something like this . . .
www.democracynow.org/blog/2011/10/6/naomi_klein_on_occupy_wall_street_to_chil_courage_to_ask_questions_we_dont_have_answers_for

From the show, ". . . we (US) are not broke. We know where money is. It's at the Wall street. We are just having the re-distribution crisis . . . " - Naomi Klein

I don't know any woman making her kids skip meals to get by. First off food stamps is plentiful if she has kids, second, there are ways to stretch that amount even further.

I think the Wall Street CEOs are abusing the system too and I have stressed this. Why people have this idea that those of against welfare fraud are fine with CEO fraud. Many of us are opposed to abuse of any type.