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Post by mynick7 on Jan 22, 2015 20:44:12 GMT -5
Reading these threads and posts from you "experts" has made me curious about my own collection. It's not an enormous collection (about 30-40 album sized pieces and about 15-20 45s) but I've still got all the 45s and albums from when I bought them in the 80s. Others came from my friends that see a Duran Duran album and get it for me (for instance, I've got several copies of Arena and Rio) or things I just happen to come across while in a record/music store. Like I mentioned in my earlier thread, I've got a couple of bootlegs, some EPs, 12" singles, a Master Disk double record set, picture disks, etc. Some from foreign countries, some that are the same album with different labels, and some that have different covers. Oh. And I did notice that some of the same albums have different numbers on the spine of the cover. And CDs are even more confusing! So my question is: Where do you start looking to find out info? I'm sure I don't have anything rare, but I'd like to see what's what in my collection so I have some knowledge other than it's by Duran Duran. I don't know about the numbers and letters on the album near the center (See? I don't even know the proper name for that). Can you experts give me some pointers and explain the basics? Thank you in advance for your patience with a novice (?) collector!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2015 23:25:08 GMT -5
Whilst it's not been updated for a few years, Tom (Tm) had a pretty good discography www.ionpool.net/duran/index.html that covered the general releases - though he wasn't interested in going into label variants at the time i half-raised it...
...& the wiki, duranduran.wikia.com/wiki/Duran_Duran_Wiki, does have lots of information on (though not everything is entirely accurate).
That said, there's no definitive list - as there is simply too much stuff - & loads of info comes from asking people questions & posting on forums or simply finding something in your own collection or on eBay or wherever that's not in any of the lists.
There's also, at times, the need to crowd source decisions about what something is - esp the legitimacy of some demos & acetates & promos that turn up - but obviously any decisions only stand until some better info emerges.
Oh & in the centre of records they're the 'matrix numbers' - which relate to the plates the record was pressed with.
As to the 'how to collect' question in the title though, imho the best way is simply to find the elements of it that you personally think are cool as, even if you had all the money, you're simply never going to get everything.
Well, it's not necessarily about having to own every version of the Rio album from everywhere & with all the alt labels & matrix numbers & sleeve texture variants & whatnot, but instead about finding your own focus.
Now, whilst i have a reasonably large vinyl & CD & tape collection that i've built up over the last 29.5 years, the last few years then i've mainly focused in on bits of memorabilia that i think are cool...
So for me then things like shop displays & tour memorabilia & clothing & random record company promo items & the original fan club stuff (though i have almost all of that) are what i personally predominantly go after these days - though not at any price...
...but for other collectors then it might be about concert tickets; or getting all of the UK or US or Japanese or... ...or simply releases with materially different sleeves; or about posters (see (Dur)Andy's book as that's his thing); or magazine articles; or awards; or radio station vinyl & CDs; or bootlegs; or sheet music; or actually trying to get every version of Rio (or whatever other single/album); or...
(or whatever combination interests the person)
Yeah, so whilst back in the day my initial interest was in catching up on the UK releases i'd missed & then, along with a hotchpotch of odd promos (& enough paper stuff to cover my walls), it became about getting lots of the (pretty common since the internet) Japanese 7"s & EPs as they had different covers, that's simply what most interested me at the time from what was both available & affordable...
...& i wouldn't suggest to anyone that that's how they should start building a Duran collection.
That's not to say that, with a bit of thought, the people using this site couldn't come up with a core range of records & CDs & whatnot that most of us would all like to own, if we don't already, but they tend to be pricey so it's all about deciding if they're worth whatever the going rate is when/if they appear to you personally.
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Post by mynick7 on Jan 22, 2015 23:35:29 GMT -5
Well, I'm in no financial position to go after things I'd like. I guess the title of the thread was deceiving. I'm more interested in finding out more about what I have. I don't know what all the numbers and other stuff means. I have a decent collection and just interested in becoming more knowledgeable about things. For instance, I don't know what the different numbers on Rio mean.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2015 23:52:43 GMT -5
Well, I'm in no financial position to go after things I'd like. I guess the title of the thread was deceiving. I'm more interested in finding out more about what I have. I don't know what all the numbers and other stuff means. I have a decent collection and just interested in becoming more knowledgeable about things. For instance, I don't know what the different numbers on Rio mean. No probs - just ignore all of the waffle about collecting. As starting points for Rio, along with the relevant bit in Tom's discography, i'd have a look at duranduran.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Rio_(album_-_variants)?display=exhibition&sort=mostvisited... Oh, & there's also www.discogs.com/master/view/79632 that has some info. As kind of said originally though, i wouldn't expect any of them to be complete - so it's then about asking people for info if you've got something that's not explicitly listed.
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Post by mynick7 on Jan 23, 2015 0:44:45 GMT -5
Okay, so what does the cat# mean? And it's not just Rio...just curious about all of the vinyl. And how can you tell if it's something rather unique?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2015 1:25:20 GMT -5
The catalogue no will be the numbers/letters on the sleeve &/or label. As to whether something's rare, it's experience, as price doesn't always come into it... So, for example, the UK Meet El Presidente non-gatefold 7" is very difficult to find however i've bought the only 2 copies i've ever seen for sale really cheaply. Things that tend to add to value though are if something's a test pressing or promo release; though some are common as muck tbh... &, similarly inconsistently, location - so, for example, indian & Filipino & African & Malaysian & some S. American releases can often tend to have higher prices, however it's all very hit'n'miss. Using the Rio album as an example though, the 2 most expensive vinyl copies that tend to come up from time to time are the almost certainly the 2 Australian promos - duranduran.wikia.com/wiki/Rio_-_Australia:_EMC_3411_(promo) & duranduran.wikia.com/wiki/Rio_Radio_Special. Otherwise, unlike many other popular artists (& i've no idea why), there's never been any real value in Duran mis-presses (ie where the label &/or one or other side is inadvertently for the wrong release or artist) - unless there happened to be a significant collector's market for the other artist of course. Oh, & i wasn't imagining that you were just interested the Rio album - it's just an example of where i'd look for info about it... & you just substitute in whatever else you're looking for on the same sites.
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Post by mynick7 on Jan 23, 2015 1:59:33 GMT -5
I took my 3 copies of Rio and found that 2 are US and 1 is Canadian. However one of the US ones has Tritec, Capitol and EMI on the back cover and one has Tritec and Harvest. None of the matrix runouts match what's listed exactly. See... This is where I get confused. I can look things up but not everything matches and I don't know why and I get frustrated.
I've got 1 UK version of their first album, 3 US versions but 2 on Harvest and 1 on Capital with a rainbow circle around the label. And I have a Japanese version. But again, none of the matrix run outs match!
*deep breath* Patience, mynick, patience... lol
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Post by vermeerf on Jan 23, 2015 2:50:35 GMT -5
Whilst it's not been updated for a few years, Tom (Tm) had a pretty good discography www.ionpool.net/duran/index.html that covered the general releases - though he wasn't interested in going into label variants at the time i half-raised it...I have to be honest, I don't like this discography very much. Sure it's rather complete but it contains no visuals. I myself have always "used" the Spanish collectors site al lot when looking for sleeve variations or when searching for matrix number's: www.durancollection.com/This site has pictures of all the records and information about matrix numbers and tracklistings. I like this site a lot. It's been my bible for a long time I use the Wiki link also a lot and quite a few people here in the Collector's Corner have their own collector sites. They are also very much worth checking out as most also contain a lot of pics and information.
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ansgar
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Post by ansgar on Jan 23, 2015 4:54:21 GMT -5
Great April, that we have awaken your interest in this! Well, this is not easy to explain as it is a very large topic, with so many exceptions. The catalogue number is only that, and doesn't say much. Here is a code for EMI releases in Europe, where you can see the origins of each release: 1A - Holland 0C - UK 1C - Germany 2C - France 3C - Italy 4C - Belgium 5C - Holland 6C - Denmark 7C - Sweden 8C - Norway 9C - Finland 10C - Spain 11C - Portugal 12C - Austria 13C - Switzerland 14C - Greece So for example Duran's debut album for Germany has 1C 064-64382. Duran was under EMI in Europe, and under Capitiol in America (Capitol belongs to EMI or vice versa). Lots of the early Duran releases in America came on Harvest which belongs to Capitol. When the band finally succeeded in America, the label decided to switch to the main label Capitol. TRITEC was the label by the then managers, and I guess it is printed on some labels and sleeves due to any rights they had on the recordings. It is often the fact, that different pressings have the same cat-number. The re-release of the debut from 1983 in the USA (including ITSISK and having a different picture of the band on the sleeve) still has the same cat-no (ST-12158) as the first pressing on Harvest and as the additional 1981 pressings on Capitol. So it doesn't say much. The matrix numbers are far more interesting, as they say where the vinyl-records or CDs were pressed, whether via a code or the real name of the pressing or master plant. Staying with the album RIO as an example: the first US version came on Harvest and has 'a' matrix-no: ST-1-12211-Z1 #1. It has also been seen with other matrix-numbers, I guess up to 'Z12'. Then came the second version of the US pressing with 'a' ST-1-12211-Z13-REI #1, I guess up to 'Z15'. This one came also on Harvest. Version 3 (the most common) came on both Harvest & Capitol and has lots of different matrix-numbers, starting with ST-1-12211-Z16 #2. The european matric information is often accompanied by a 'cut number', which refers to the 'stamper' (the metal plate being used to press that side of the record). Other numbers, letters or symbols can often be found in association with the matrix number or at other places on the run-off; these refer to things such as the 'take' (which version of a recording is being used). Firms, or individual engineers, responsible for cutting the records sometimes added initials, names or even messages. The UK RIO single for example was pressed by UTOPIA other were pressed by TOWNHOUSE, they can have different versions of the song, but they also can play the same version. All a bit weird I know, but as I said, it is a very large topic, with so many exceptions. Here are a few good links: ionpool.net/duran/duran_by_numbers_2009-10-20.xlswww.discogs.com/help/forums/topic/324904?page=1www.ebay.co.uk/gds/Parlophone-Matrix-Mothers-Stampers-and-Tax-Codes-/10000000000116173/g.html2006andreamvinyl.co.uk/index_files/EMIMATRIXCODES.htmIf you are willing to tell us the cat# and matrix# of some of your items, I think we will all be happy to tell you what you have!? Maybe this would be the best starting point for you. I mean if you'll get some info from us for the records you have in your collection.
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Post by poptrash on Jan 23, 2015 4:57:00 GMT -5
When i built my database, i used all the sites that were out there and still today i am adding things. It covers almost 3000 items of DD and Arcadia (and only vinyl and cds), so no other projects or cassettes, dvds, compilation lps etc.). And that i like very much, everytime you find something you was not aware of.
I'd like to add something about the matrixnumbers... If you verify the matrixnumbers of your record to one listed on discogs, then there is a change it is the same, but in many cases if differs. Mostly every time they use a new stamper (plate) for this particular pressing, they changed the matrix no. a bit in some countries. As for the Us pressings you often see something like F1-2 and something like Z#3. I don't exactly understand those additions but it has something to do with the release, re-release, re-re-release if the content (tracks) have changed. See the 'Rio' explanation on Tom's site written by Ansgar (our Rio-man here on the board). On the 7" and 12" pressings until the mid eighties, in the US they also identified the song identification number, for Duran many starting with X600... If you take a closer look to your 7"s you will see it. Every song has a number. ITSISK has number X600639. And every version or remix has an extra indication, a letter added to this number. The Monster Mix of ITSISK has X600639A. These numbers are mentioned on the label as well. For the Rio and SAP song i even came across letter G !
I like it a lot that you want to identify your collection because i think there is more to find out about a record than just playing it. And sometimes it is not easy to find out the origins. US and Canadian pressings have the same cat.nos., but the country is mentioned on sleeve and labels. But South African and Zimbabwean records also have the same cat.nos. and no origin is mentioned anywhere. Even the printing company (either Bardwell or Interpak) is not giving the answer (as a former record company person told me when i had a chat a few months ago). The key is the labels and kind of paper used for the sleeves. For me that is a fun thing about collecting... The various things about track listing, sleeves, labels, colours, numbers etc.
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