sanman
NOTORIOUS
He'll flip ya. Flip ya for real.
Posts: 799
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Post by sanman on Jan 21, 2007 12:40:08 GMT -5
Clinton, on the other hand, hasn't impressed me much in politics. I haven't seen her make any decisions that reminded me of the basic principles of the Democratic party. She seems to flow with her perception of popular opinion... She reminds me of her husband in that way. I have an utter lack of respect for her because I find her completely disingenuous. |
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Post by stuporfly on Jan 21, 2007 12:44:29 GMT -5
Clinton, on the other hand, hasn't impressed me much in politics. I haven't seen her make any decisions that reminded me of the basic principles of the Democratic party. She seems to flow with her perception of popular opinion... She reminds me of her husband in that way. I have an utter lack of respect for her because I find her completely disingenuous. At least Bill Clinton got some things done. He looks like FDR compared to the disaster in the White House right now, though even on his own merits, his presidency wasn't a total wash. But like his wife, he talked a lot about things that matter to me - universal health care springs instantly to mind - without actually doing anything about it. |
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Mediavixen
BIG THING
Vinyl rocks my high heeled world!
Posts: 551
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Post by Mediavixen on Jan 21, 2007 12:50:56 GMT -5
Canadian Health Care System.... in a basic nutshell, most of our health care system is covered by our tax dollars and govt programs, so most of it is free. Not everything as you will come across some addtional fees that are not covered, but I would say about 80-90% of everything is.
Visits to your doctor, emergency wards, and *most* hospital stays are free. Care for most illness are also free, although there can be some additional costs here and there. If you are admitted to the hospital, most of your care is covered, although some charges may apply here and there. You will pay extra for a private room, or certain proceedures/treatments may have additional costs, however we are not talking anything in the ballpark of the US costs.
I have had several family members battle cancer, and each time about at least 80-95% of everything was covered. I have never heard of anyone battling an illness ending up with those insanely huge medical bills you get in the US. Never.
You choose your own doctor and we have no HMO's. *Most* everything you do at your doc will be covered, with a few exceptions. There is no limit to how many times you can visit your doctor either. You can have multiple doctors as well, - family doc, gyno, specialist for whatever you may have, etc...
I have never had to pay for anything other than a doctors note and travel shots my whole life.
Prescriptions are not covered and you must pay for those.
Most companies offer some sort of company coverage to cover these few additional fees or people take out private insurance policies to cover them and to recoup paying for prescriptions.
Overall, it's MUCH cheaper than the US with a large part of it covered by taxes/govt programs, however it is not perfect. We tend to have a problem with wait times for care, which is not good. Wait times is currently a big issue here.
Care also can be faster and better in different provinces. This can also be an issue.
The door is opening for private care offices though. Not sure how I feel about those. Basically, the rich will get care and the poor won't under those.
If I am missing anything, another Cannuck can jump in. Like everywhere, health care is hotly debated here too. This is a very basic outline of it. It certainly isnt perfect by any means, and it's not 100% free.... but I would take ours any day over the US.
do i get any bloody kharma now for posting this? lol...
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Mediavixen
BIG THING
Vinyl rocks my high heeled world!
Posts: 551
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Post by Mediavixen on Jan 21, 2007 12:58:36 GMT -5
Good to hear from another Cannuck. Renee and I both admit it's not perfect, but I am sure she would agree that we would much rather take what we have then end up in insane debt that we could never pay off.
One of my relatives that I mentioned, battled a brain tumour. Two brain surgeries, months of chemo and radiation, several longer hospital stays, prescriptions galore, home care nursing, etc.. and in the end it cost her and my uncle very little.
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joeystylez
BIG THING
I AM THE GAME, I KNOW YOU CAN'T PLAY ME.[F4:Joey_Stylez]
Posts: 282
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Post by joeystylez on Jan 21, 2007 13:55:27 GMT -5
See, THIS is what i envisioned when i started this thread. Good, smart politcial debate w/o any animosity. I'm very proud of all of us.
Sanman, I see your point. When you say consumption tax, would you also include income tax on that as well? Or do you believe that our incomes should not be touched? Steven Forbes' idea of a 15% flat tax sounded good on paper, but I wonder if it would in practice. BTW you're so right about the gambling issue. it's such a huge money generator. Forget the so-called moral issue of gambling. People are gonna do it whether there's a casino or not, so the state might as well make some money from it. Same thing with marijuana.
Stup, Obama is an intriguing guy. I think he has the smarts and moral center to be a good president, but I would like to know more about his views on broader issues. In a lot of ways he reminds of Paul Tsongas from '92, whom I supported before Clinton won me over.
iami, I can see why you would think that way. She does want the power, but then again so does anyone who runs for that office. I do think she would be an effective president. Far as the GOP goes, if they were smart they run from Bush as fast as possible. The general public is sick of him. The Repub Party runs the risk of giving the Dems complete long-term control of the government if they don't jettison Bush and his crew quickly.
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Post by Carina on Jan 21, 2007 14:09:58 GMT -5
Joey, I think my main problem with Hillary is that she hailed from Arkansas, but set up shop in NY just so she could run for the senate. I can't recall anything in her past prior to that time that gave her any affinity for NY. In other words, I think she wants power (and a lot of it) much more than the good of the people. iami Quick correction...she hails from Illinois, and she went to high school in the town next to us, where my kids go to school. She married Bill, from Arkansas, then picked NY as her Senatorial bid. Yes, there were a few groans from Chicagoland when she picked NY. But, she didn't pick Illinois because we are an historically Democratic state and she would be running against her own party, especially where Senators are concerned. I don't think she thought she would have as much to add or as much political influence, unless she picked another large state. Or, maybe, she just didn't want to live here.  |
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Post by sarahb1863 on Jan 21, 2007 14:10:52 GMT -5
Interesting comments about the Canadian health care system. What do the doctors and other medical professionals think of it?
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Post by desertduranie on Jan 21, 2007 14:16:27 GMT -5
So far I prefer Obama. I like his philosophy: his mother would ask him after he made any mistake "so how does that make you feel?" He believes all politics should be run that way. If you see an elderly person who can't afford prescriptions, imagine that was your grandmother. How would it make you feel if your grandmother couldn't afford her medicines? Call me a bleeding heart liberal but that makes sense to me. And he was against the war in Iraq from the beginning. LIke me.
Note about the socialized medicine sub debate. I live in a country with socialized medicine. If I need to see a doctor today, I see a doctor today, sometimes even without an appointment. I pay about $5 for a prescription and a $5 co pay for most diagnostic tests. I've never had such cheap or quick medical care in the US.
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sanman
NOTORIOUS
He'll flip ya. Flip ya for real.
Posts: 799
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Post by sanman on Jan 21, 2007 14:21:37 GMT -5
Sanman, I see your point. When you say consumption tax, would you also include income tax on that as well? Or do you believe that our incomes should not be touched? broad based consumption tax = flat tax it would replace income tax at the federal level and would eliminate the IRS and federal income tax, as we know it. all of the governmental income would be generated by more heavily taxing consumption (purchases). it might have an added bonus of helping people to reign in their spending, as well, thus controlling personal debt. |
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Post by Carina on Jan 21, 2007 14:27:26 GMT -5
About socialized medicine...I have a question about quality of healthcare and availability of latest technologies and treatments.
The only time I have come in contact with it is in Italy. I was on an bus excursion to Pisa from Viareggio with my two sons and my MIL, and my younger son got violently ill, which was highly unusual for him, and I was VERY worried.
I went to a mobile first aid station on the main square, and I was VERY quickly whisked away in an ambulance, with the rest of my family in tow, to the local hospital. The treatment room was falling apart, the CRTs were things I used in grade school, and the rest of the equipment looked as if it was three generations old.
I have had older Italian immigrant relatives tell me that they refuse to travel back to Italy at their age because they loathe the idea of getting sick in Italy...not only because their primary doc is here, but because, although the doctors are well-trained and good, the treatments and diagnostic equipment are out-dated.
This is *not* a knock against Italy...please, don't take it that way...it's just a comment on the socialized medicine I witnessed first-hand and that other people have first-hand opinions on.
There is the *cost* of health care, but there is also the quality of health care. I would agree that our system is broken for the uninsured/underinsured (no preventative medicine, mainly), and HMOs are quite schooled in getting around the rules of the system to cut costs and level of care, but I'm not completely convinced that socialized medicine is the way to go. There has to be another solution.
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