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Post by More Play Time on Mar 16, 2024 12:59:39 GMT -5
By the way PG has DR6, DM is 7 (5 songs are 6). I hope someone close to the band will read it. How does this make them Warriors of the Loudness War?, surely wattage and ampage affect loudness, not fidelity? But I can see your point. Perhaps the issue is, a record can hold the full spectrum of audio, from the loudest to the very quietest, and has a fuller fidelity. CDs can have the same quality, but normally they are filtered through a narrower band, which feels rather flat. Even lossless audio files can seem the same, if they are mastered with a limited range. I presume the software narrows the band range to just the highest and the lowest notes heard in the song, and this takes away the 'ambience', the black lines between the white lines. Perhaps in the same way that Analogue video formats lost their scan lines and 'static noise', a digital format is too clean, and can feel digitised and fake. (comparing Star Wars etc, where many think the demastered versions are better). If seems to me that fidelity is aligned directly with their audio engineer, so perhaps the best way would be to contact Josh Blair on his social channels, and plead for DM 12?
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maxim
A few more posts....
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Post by maxim on Mar 16, 2024 13:36:19 GMT -5
By the way PG has DR6, DM is 7 (5 songs are 6). I hope someone close to the band will read it. How does this make them Warriors of the Loudness War?, surely wattage and ampage affect loudness, not fidelity? But I can see your point. Perhaps the issue is, a record can hold the full spectrum of audio, from the loudest to the very quietest, and has a fuller fidelity. CDs can have the same quality, but normally they are filtered through a narrower band, which feels rather flat. Even lossless audio files can seem the same, if they are mastered with a limited range. I presume the software narrows the band range to just the highest and the lowest notes heard in the song, and this takes away the 'ambience', the black lines between the white lines. Perhaps in the same way that Analogue video formats lost their scan lines and 'static noise', a digital format is too clean, and can feel digitised and fake. (comparing Star Wars etc, where many think the demastered versions are better). If seems to me that fidelity is aligned directly with their audio engineer, so perhaps the best way would be to contact Josh Blair on his social channels, and plead for DM 12? Please read the whole thread, I've explained what the term means, what is the purpose of brickwalling and how it is achieved.
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Post by duranfan09 on Mar 16, 2024 13:59:48 GMT -5
I actually really struggle to listen to Future Past now because I normally end up with earache and/or a headache, unfortunately it is because of the mastering which isn't good as you rightfully say.
I've suffered with tinnitus in my left ear for several years now, so have to be careful not to listen to poor quality audio or even good quality music when it isn't fed through a high end device. Regrettably, Future Past falls into the former because even on my excellent speakers upstairs at home it causes issues. Let's hope that one day it gets the remaster it deserves.
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maxim
A few more posts....
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Post by maxim on Mar 16, 2024 14:19:31 GMT -5
I actually really struggle to listen to Future Past now because I normally end up with earache and/or a headache, unfortunately it is because of the mastering which isn't good as you rightfully say. I've suffered with tinnitus in my left ear for several years now, so have to be careful not to listen to poor quality audio or even good quality music when it isn't fed through a high end device. Regrettably, Future Past falls into the former because even on my excellent speakers upstairs at home it causes issues. Let's hope that one day it gets the remaster it deserves. I would really like to listen to the vinyl version of the album (or its rip), usually they use a different master recording for it. As for a possible remaster, as far as I understand you can't 'undo' the compression, so unless they still have the recording before it was compressed, it won't be possible to increase the DR.
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Post by intravenus on Mar 16, 2024 14:55:27 GMT -5
This is the DR report for the album: DR5 0.00 dB -6.19 dB 3:11 01-Invisible DR5 0.00 dB -6.55 dB 4:05 02-All Of You DR4 0.00 dB -6.93 dB 5:07 03-Give It All Up (featuring Tove Lo) DR5 0.00 dB -6.23 dB 5:18 04-Anniversary DR5 0.00 dB -6.44 dB 3:53 05-Future Past DR4 0.00 dB -5.82 dB 2:40 06-Velvet Newton DR4 0.00 dB -4.73 dB 3:36 07-Beautiful Lies DR5 0.00 dB -6.56 dB 3:08 08-Tonight United DR4 0.00 dB -5.94 dB 5:19 09-Wing DR5 0.00 dB -6.44 dB 4:26 10-Nothing Less DR5 0.00 dB -7.20 dB 4:55 11-Laughing Boy DR5 0.00 dB -6.44 dB 3:34 12-Hammerhead (featuring Ivorian Doll) DR3 0.00 dB -5.40 dB 2:08 13-Invocation DR5 0.00 dB -7.55 dB 3:39 14-More Joy! (featuring Chai) DR4 0.00 dB -7.46 dB 5:49 15-Falling (featuring Mike Garson) What software did you use? How could Invocation possibly be DR3, and the the less bombastic songs on the album like Give It All Up, Velvet Newton, Wing and Falling are DR4 while denser songs like Anniversary and Hammerhead seem to have more dynamic range at DR5?
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maxim
A few more posts....
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Post by maxim on Mar 16, 2024 15:12:32 GMT -5
This is the DR report for the album: DR5 0.00 dB -6.19 dB 3:11 01-Invisible DR5 0.00 dB -6.55 dB 4:05 02-All Of You DR4 0.00 dB -6.93 dB 5:07 03-Give It All Up (featuring Tove Lo) DR5 0.00 dB -6.23 dB 5:18 04-Anniversary DR5 0.00 dB -6.44 dB 3:53 05-Future Past DR4 0.00 dB -5.82 dB 2:40 06-Velvet Newton DR4 0.00 dB -4.73 dB 3:36 07-Beautiful Lies DR5 0.00 dB -6.56 dB 3:08 08-Tonight United DR4 0.00 dB -5.94 dB 5:19 09-Wing DR5 0.00 dB -6.44 dB 4:26 10-Nothing Less DR5 0.00 dB -7.20 dB 4:55 11-Laughing Boy DR5 0.00 dB -6.44 dB 3:34 12-Hammerhead (featuring Ivorian Doll) DR3 0.00 dB -5.40 dB 2:08 13-Invocation DR5 0.00 dB -7.55 dB 3:39 14-More Joy! (featuring Chai) DR4 0.00 dB -7.46 dB 5:49 15-Falling (featuring Mike Garson) What software did you use? How could Invocation possibly be DR3, and the the less bombastic songs on the album like Give It All Up, Velvet Newton, Wing and Falling are DR4 while denser songs like Anniversary and Hammerhead seem to have more dynamic range at DR5? This is really going nowhere now. Please use the software that you trust and present your results to us. Then we'll discuss all the whys.
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Post by jupiter on Mar 16, 2024 15:43:19 GMT -5
Maxim...maybe a comparison to other DD albums like Notorius, Big Thing etc would help. Whilst I don't doubt the figures, my ears are enough! But yes, I notice poor sound and there's no excuse for it. I'm not expecting the pristine sounds of Stars (Simply Red) or Ten Summoners Tales (Sting) but something much better than we got.
Over the last 20 years sound seems to be on a retrograde path...which is odd as things should get better (or at the very least not get worse!) as we advance our understanding. It can be done...all four albums mentioned here are 30 plus years old and don't IMO suffer from todays mastering foibles. We don't really need all this Hi-Res stuff (but should be there for those who want it of course), what we already have can work well if treated appropriately.
Would be fanatastic if we could have versions (on CD) not so brick walled. I wonder if DD get to experience consumer product as we do? I wonder if they ever think about it...
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maxim
A few more posts....
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Post by maxim on Mar 16, 2024 15:59:38 GMT -5
Maxim...maybe a comparison to other DD albums like Notorius, Big Thing etc would help. Whilst I don't doubt the figures, my ears are enough! But yes, I notice poor sound and there's no excuse for it. I'm not expecting the pristine sounds of Stars (Simply Red) or Ten Summoners Tales (Sting) but something much better than we got. Over the last 20 years sound seems to be on a retrograde path...which is odd as things should get better (or at the very least not get worse!) as we advance our understanding. It can be done...all four albums mentioned here are 30 plus years old and don't IMO suffer from todays mastering foibles. We don't really need all this Hi-Res stuff (but should be there for those who want it of course), what we already have can work well if treated appropriately. Would be fanatastic if we could have versions (on CD) not so brick walled. I wonder if DD get to experience consumer product as we do? I wonder if they ever think about it... O'k, I will prepare such a comparison. Unfortunately I was silly enough to get rid of the original CDs long ago and the albums before Liberty, which I have, are remasters only. But we'll see...
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Post by iainbann on Mar 16, 2024 17:53:39 GMT -5
This shit has always confused the hell out of me. I’m an accountant ffs. Anyway. The one anchor I have is the Ken Scott chat around PT and how only Starting to Remember remained his mix. That’s a beautiful, warm and richly analogue piece of music. So I keep going into the lossy light.
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Post by astronaut42 on Mar 16, 2024 19:14:24 GMT -5
Sorry I just am not bothered by all this and I find the constant whining exhausting. Bottom line if you don't want to listen to the album then don't. 😉👏
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