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Post by More Play Time on Mar 16, 2024 19:32:15 GMT -5
This is really going nowhere now. I'm not sure what us fans can do about it?
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Post by intravenus on Mar 16, 2024 20:43:27 GMT -5
Please use the software that you trust and present your results to us. I get these stats using Sound Forge: LUFS / Loudness Range -5.86 / 4.6 01 Invisible -6.53 / 4.5 02 All Of You -6.74 / 8.4 03 Give It All Up -5.70 / 5.6 04 Anniversary -5.92 / 5.8 05 Future Past -6.5 / 11.6 06 Velvet Newton -4.93 / 2.7 07 Beautiful Lies -7.10 / 6.7 08 Tonight United -6.03 / 4.8 09 Wing -6.22 / 7.3 10 Nothing Less -6.84 / 9.7 11 Laughing Boy -5.96 / 6.3 12 Hammerhead -4.41 / 7.4 13 Invocation -6.75 / 8.0 14 More Joy! -8.77 / 5.6 15 Five Years -6.82 / 15 16 Falling As for DR values: gearspace.com/board/mastering-forum/1192375-lufs-vs-dynamic-range-best-practice.html
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maxim
A few more posts....
Posts: 41
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Post by maxim on Mar 17, 2024 2:16:36 GMT -5
Please use the software that you trust and present your results to us. I get these stats using Sound Forge: LUFS / Loudness Range -5.86 / 4.6 01 Invisible -6.53 / 4.5 02 All Of You -6.74 / 8.4 03 Give It All Up -5.70 / 5.6 04 Anniversary -5.92 / 5.8 05 Future Past -6.5 / 11.6 06 Velvet Newton -4.93 / 2.7 07 Beautiful Lies -7.10 / 6.7 08 Tonight United -6.03 / 4.8 09 Wing -6.22 / 7.3 10 Nothing Less -6.84 / 9.7 11 Laughing Boy -5.96 / 6.3 12 Hammerhead -4.41 / 7.4 13 Invocation -6.75 / 8.0 14 More Joy! -8.77 / 5.6 15 Five Years -6.82 / 15 16 Falling As for DR values: gearspace.com/board/mastering-forum/1192375-lufs-vs-dynamic-range-best-practice.htmlSo what exactly do these numbers tell you? What is your conclusion? As for the opinion that DR is useless... This is the only way to see how much the music is compressed (in numbers) and if you believe that the compression value does not say anything about the recording then it is just pointless to discuss it further.
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Post by Max Zorin on Mar 17, 2024 8:28:33 GMT -5
I really feel sorry for people who are audiophiles, it sounds (no pun intended) like a real curse that gets in the way of their ability to enjoy music. WOULD IT BOTHER YOU IF WE WROTE THE TEXTS IS CAPITAL LETTERS AND IN BOLD? WOULD YOU READ A BOOK PRINTED THIS WAY? BECAUSE THIS IS THE PROBLEM WITH MODERN MUSIC PRODUCTION - MODERN RECORDS ARE LIKE BOOKS PRINTED IN BOLD AND CAPITAL LETTERS.
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maxim
A few more posts....
Posts: 41
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Post by maxim on Mar 17, 2024 8:40:44 GMT -5
Here is the DR values for all DD studio albums (I made a nice Excel table, but could not insert it, sorry). A few comments: 1) These are the dynamic range values. They are not general sounding (mastering, mixing, etc.) marks or ratings. They only give us understanding of how much the music is compressed. However (!) the dynamic range compression is the parameter which is messed with the most when an album is being remastered. It is also the main sound quality characteristic of the modern music. 2) I do not own the first 3 albums in a non-remastered format, so I took their DR values (marked *) from here dr.loudness-war.info/ I have a few high quality needle-drops of some albums, so you can see their DR values as well (those marked with * are also from the DR online database). 3) A personal request to those who don't care or enjoy highly compressed music: could you please refrain from telling the world about it in this thread? These are your happy times - the music brickwalling is here forever, so please just ignore us 'whiners' and be happy. Album Official DR value CD LP Duran Duran 15* 13 Rio 13* 14 Seven... 12* 13 Notorious 15 15* Big Thing 14 13* Liberty 12 TWA 11 12 Thank You 9 Medazzaland 10 Pop Trash 7 Astronaut 8 9 Red Carpet... 6 10 All You Need... 7 12 Paper Gods 6 11 Future Past 5 Danse Macabre 7
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Post by intravenus on Mar 17, 2024 10:56:19 GMT -5
So what exactly do these numbers tell you? What is your conclusion? LUFS and Loudness Range are more helpful measurements than DR, especially when it comes to individual songs. Ordering them by density, we can see that songs like Falling and Give It All Up fare better than Invisible and Anniversary, which are audibly more compressed: -4.41 / 7.4 Invocation -4.93 / 2.7 Beautiful Lies -5.70 / 5.6 Anniversary -5.86 / 4.6 Invisible -5.92 / 5.8 Future Past -5.96 / 6.3 Hammerhead -6.03 / 4.8 Wing -6.22 / 7.3 Nothing Less -6.5 / 11.6 Velvet Newton -6.53 / 4.5 All Of You -6.74 / 8.4 Give It All Up -6.75 / 8.0 More Joy! -6.82 / 15 Falling -6.84 / 9.7 Laughing Boy -7.10 / 6.7 Tonight United -8.77 / 5.6 Five Years Loudness Range values show that Falling, Velvet Newton, Laughing Boy and Give It All Up have the greatest overall dynamic range while Beautiful Lies is louder from start to finish. Where DR fails as a measurement is in positioning songs like Falling and Give It All Up at DR4, while DR5 songs like Anniversary and Hammerhead are clearly louder and more compressed. LUFS ranks them in an order that more accurately represents their actual compression levels.
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maxim
A few more posts....
Posts: 41
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Post by maxim on Mar 17, 2024 11:27:40 GMT -5
So what exactly do these numbers tell you? What is your conclusion? LUFS and Loudness Range are more helpful measurements than DR, especially when it comes to individual songs. Ordering them by density, we can see that songs like Falling and Give It All Up fare better than Invisible and Anniversary, which are audibly more compressed: -4.41 / 7.4 Invocation -4.93 / 2.7 Beautiful Lies -5.70 / 5.6 Anniversary -5.86 / 4.6 Invisible -5.92 / 5.8 Future Past -5.96 / 6.3 Hammerhead -6.03 / 4.8 Wing -6.22 / 7.3 Nothing Less -6.5 / 11.6 Velvet Newton -6.53 / 4.5 All Of You -6.74 / 8.4 Give It All Up -6.75 / 8.0 More Joy! -6.82 / 15 Falling -6.84 / 9.7 Laughing Boy -7.10 / 6.7 Tonight United -8.77 / 5.6 Five Years Loudness Range values show that Falling, Velvet Newton, Laughing Boy and Give It All Up have the greatest overall dynamic range while Beautiful Lies is louder from start to finish. Where DR fails as a measurement is in positioning songs like Falling and Give It All Up at DR4, while DR5 songs like Anniversary and Hammerhead are clearly louder and more compressed. LUFS ranks them in an order that more accurately represents their actual compression levels. So does your research contradict or support my initial statement that FP is extremely compressed? Do you agree that this level of compression is harmful to music? Would you like the band/record company to change their approach to the sound quality? Or you do not care about these things, you are only interested in finding a better tool to measure loudness?
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Post by intravenus on Mar 17, 2024 13:07:19 GMT -5
Future Past is a step in the wrong direction but considering that their albums since Pop Trash have generally been too loud, it's probably too late for them to back off now. It sounds better to me in cars, though I usually lower the volume there and especially for headphones. In spite of the loudness and resulting ear fatigue, I think they nailed the mixes for All Of You, Give It All Up, Wing, More Joy! and Falling.
Most of their releases compare favourably to U2, Foo Fighters, even Billie Eilish who all tend to have louder mixes. Ideally they would release audiophile versions but there may not be enough demand to justify the expense.
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Post by medazzaland71 on Mar 17, 2024 13:17:03 GMT -5
For once, I'm thankful for my bad hearing.
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Post by Rabbit Dog on Mar 17, 2024 15:05:03 GMT -5
I really feel sorry for people who are audiophiles, it sounds (no pun intended) like a real curse that gets in the way of their ability to enjoy music. WOULD IT BOTHER YOU IF WE WROTE THE TEXTS IS CAPITAL LETTERS AND IN BOLD? WOULD YOU READ A BOOK PRINTED THIS WAY? BECAUSE THIS IS THE PROBLEM WITH MODERN MUSIC PRODUCTION - MODERN RECORDS ARE LIKE BOOKS PRINTED IN BOLD AND CAPITAL LETTERS.I understand your pain, but my hearing isn't so acute as to discern the difference personally, so Future Past sounds wonderful in a sonic sense to me. But I get that some people are more sensitive to the finer details and that some production outcomes can be grating to those individuals. Similarly I have friends who are videophiles that think HD at regular Blu-ray-level is unwatchable, but I'm fine with DVD resolution.
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